Still worthwhile?

[Somecamel]

Lots of people in society are poor and don't waste money on smokes, booze and gambling.

Where do they run to, when they have to make choices between heating their homes and feeding their families?

I don't waste money on smokes and Booze. I need smokes and booze!! I can always wear a Jumper if I'm cold

 

[dchester]

Why invest when there is such regulatory and political risk? Or the risk of consumers demanding unrealistically low prices?
Like I said: prices can't go more than several percent lower - a fiver a month on an average bill.

If you want to spend your life arguing over a maximum saving of a fiver a month through "not-for-profit" gas/electric, then fine. But I'd spend my time wondering about other, easier ways to make ends meet.
One less packet of smokes a month, or two less beers, or one less shot at the lottery each week.

It's not just a few percent though is it. The latest rise alone for me from the wonderful NPower was 22% on my gas! And that is just this year! You ignore all the previous years' inflation busting price hikes. Take electricity, where I was just a few years ago paying 4p per kWh and my renewal price this year was around 10.5p - That's an increase of 162% on what I was paying about 6 years ago! And I cannot be alone in this.

 

[FB.]

Lots of people in society are poor and don't waste money on smokes, booze and gambling.

Where do they run to, when they have to make choices between heating their homes and feeding their families?

I grew up in a council house, on the worst estate in my town. I went to the worst schools until my teachers and a high school saw potential in me and took me on.
Many of my primary school friends are either dead, in prison, or junkies - mostly associated with crime.

When I was very young my mother was involved in an accident which left her disabled and unable to work. She underwent several operations and considerable time in hospital to try to improve her quality of life.
Only my father was able to work - and he had to care for us on his own at times (when my mother was too ill). He had left school during the Depression, as barely a teenager. His education was minimal. He mostly worked as a lorry driver (sand/gravel) or heavy machinery operator in the associated quarries and landfills.

Not much stoped his fighting spirit, determination and resourcefulness from giving us a decent quality of life - even when there were soaring prices and three-day-weeks in the 1970's.

So believe me: I'm not one of those who has always had it easy. I am well aware of how the real world works and how both sides live.

Too many people today expect something for nothing. It's a side effect of the benefits culture. A lot of the girls I went to school with had one aim in life: to get pregnant as soon as possible (age 15-16) in order to be given a council house and lots of benefits; never needing to do a day's work in their life. Then they carried on breeding like rats at the expense of tax-payers or tax-paying businesses - while those who do an honest hard day's work have to think about the consequences of having additional children.

 

[dchester]

Yes, because there has been too much emphasis on consumers and not enough on encouraging businesses to invest and create jobs.

There is very little emphasis on consumers. It's all about shareholders. I already said that. These companies don't want to invest in new cheaper energy sources. They want to milk their cash cow for all they can.

The economy will not get out of its slump unless businesses can be encouraged to invest, and they will not invest unless the profit margins are satisfactory.

The profit margin does not need to be high when sales volumes are so enormous. Many computer distributors work on margins of 1% or so for some items.

How many construction workers would be given jobs, if the utility companies suddenly were able to find profitable investment options for new power stations? How much extra would that inject into the ailing UK construction industry - and filter down as wages to ordinary people? Or should we continue to lack investment and buy all our power from the Continent, with money flowing overseas instead of the UK?

It does that anyway because foreign companies have been allowed to buy our utility companies.

I presume, then, that you'd like everything to be owned by the state - including your business. After all: almost everything is "essential" and therefore why should one industry or sector be any different to other industries or sectors (especially if margins are already very low)?

I don't know why you presume that. You seem to think I'm some kind of socialist, whereas I'm actually at the other end of the scale! Without competition prices would be artificially high but there is no real competition between these companies currently. And there we go again about low margins. 7% is not a low margin, especially with such a huge turnover. It's a very healthy margin.

As things stand, you can see where investors and businesses will put their money - smokes, booze and anything with a government subsidy. Not many will be interested in low-margin utilities and investment in utility infrastructure may be starved as a result.

If it were a normal business they would invest in new ways to produce cheap energy which they could then sell for a lower price, undercutting the competition and thus increasing their customer base, turnover and profit. This does not happen because they don't have to do it. Instead they can carry on fixing the prices at higher and higher levels knowing that we HAVE to pay it.

There is far too LITTLE regulation of this industry and in fact what regulation there is seems always to be in their favour and not the hard pressed consumers. These people are always crying about government subsidies. Why should they have any at all? They BOUGHT the water company or whatever utility it is and in doing so they should take on board what needs to be done. Fix the leaks. Improve distribution and create a better, cheaper source for their product. Then the customers will come. Then the profits will flow in. Then the shareholders AND the consumers will be happy.

Of course this will never happen without someone weilding a Big Stick because of one thing: Greed.

 

[sedgy34]

@ dchester I'm just catching up on this thread just read your last post 32and then read your first post you have the answer.
also FB is a consumer not a installer and contributes a lot to the forum if every consumer were like FB the country would all have Pv and the leeches you mention would have no other alternativve than to drop there energy prices

 

[dchester]

I grew up in a council house, on the worst estate in my town. I went to the worst schools until my teachers and a high school saw potential in me and took me on.
Many of my primary school friends are either dead, in prison, or junkies - mostly associated with crime.

When I was very young my mother was involved in an accident which left her disabled and unable to work. She underwent several operations and considerable time in hospital to try to improve her quality of life.
Only my father was able to work - and he had to care for us on his own at times (when my mother was too ill). He had left school during the Depression, as barely a teenager. His education was minimal. He mostly worked as a lorry driver (sand/gravel) or heavy machinery operator in the associated quarries and landfills.

Not much stoped his fighting spirit, determination and resourcefulness from giving us a decent quality of life - even when there were soaring prices and three-day-weeks in the 1970's.

So believe me: I'm not one of those who has always had it easy. I am well aware of how the real world works and how both sides live.

Too many people today expect something for nothing. It's a side effect of the benefits culture. A lot of the girls I went to school with had one aim in life: to get pregnant as soon as possible (age 15-16) in order to be given a council house and lots of benefits; never needing to do a day's work in their life. Then they carried on breeding like rats at the expense of tax-payers or tax-paying businesses - while those who do an honest hard day's work have to think about the consequences of having additional children.

OK so we seem to share the same basic ideals, however you appear to have completely lost touch with your roots because now you just don't seem to "get it". You talk only of your investment portfolio and forget about the real people out there who are struggling. I don't mean the spongers and theives. I mean normal middle class people who can't get a loan from the bank to expand or diversify their business. Can't make enough sales to pay the bills because their clients just don't have or are not prepared to risk spending their hard-earned cash on whatever it is that the chap is trying to sell them.

 

[dchester]

@ dchester I'm just catching up on this thread just read your last post 32and then read your first post you have the answer.
also FB is a consumer not a installer and contributes a lot to the forum if every consumer were like FB the country would all have Pv and the leeches you mention would have no other alternativve than to drop there energy prices

Death to the leeches!

D.

 

[sedgy34]

Death to the leeches!

D.

Im sure someone on here can price you a 4 kw Pv system get on board like us installers who have Pv on our own roofs
post your area

 

[Gavin A]

is it still worthwhile?

Where just rejigging our figures for November, and coming out with up to 16% annual return on investment even using the IRR method, which takes off the cost of the system before working out the return - for our cheapets 3.9kW system for a high daytime energy user (50% consumption on site).

Most reasonably priced 3-4kW systems will be more like 9-15% returns depending on price, orientation, system size, daytime energy consumption etc.

If you've got money in the bank earning sod all interest, and you're paying tax on what little interest you do get then you'll be hard pushed to find better long term returns than that IMO (it's tax income tax free, which makes a huge difference for higher rate tax payers).

 

[sedgy34]

We had a customer cash there ISA in and it paid for the Pv install they are well happy

 

[Eco Deal]

Our last customer did the same her own words ''why leave my money in the bank doing sod all''

 

[sedgy34]

Just think If the people in the country followed suit

 

[Vegelen]

Solar inverter replacement / repair should also be factored into any potential customers calculations.

SMA repair inverters in the UK for something like £300-£400.

Many other cheaper inverters may have to be replaced.

Customers should look to buy reliable, quality inverters with compatible solar pv hardware in a

system, designed and installed by professionals.

The recession has brought a lot of "doom and gloom", but its created opportunities for

those willing to look.

Right now lots of professional solar engineers stand idle.

Wholesalers are dumping quality inverters on the market at sub wholesale prices.

Solar pv panels are getting very cheap.

Smart people, can now install quality solar pv systems at very competitive prices with

minimal capital outlay compared to 2011.

 

[finchy]

Well said guys !! I'm getting squeezed on a really well spec'ed system margins are tight as it is. I guess customers see the price drops and think its within our control.

 

[sedgy34]

Well said guys !! I'm getting squeezed on a really well spec'ed system margins are tight as it is. I guess customers see the price drops and think its within our control.

not surprised there they always think they can pull the strings and play you off each other