Strange REASON8 problem

[Lordy9099]

Hello,

I changed an old panel to a new G4 a few weeks ago and I also fitted a new REASON8 and I have had nothing but problems, the cables are all in the correct places to the correct places in the panel but when I take the cover off the alarm goes off and if I kill the power towards to the panel the alarm goes off. But if I go into full alarm condition then the bell does not go off and even if I do an engineer test. Nothing. HELP!!

 

[oldtimer]

External Sounder

Now if there was ever a electrician graveyard for intruder/burglar alarm this is the baby that just confuses the hell out of sparks so what’s the mystic around this.

Well its how you look at it the external sounder has come a long way from a box with a bell and tamper switch in it funny thing is it still gets called a bellbox but its been 25 years since bells were used.

So let break it down the sounder is designed to be a stand alone unit so lets list its components.

1. Piezo sounder this is the audible part of the sounder
2. Strobe light this is the visual part of the sounder remember the audible part has to go off after 15 minutes but the strobe latches on so this can do a couple of things one is attract the attention of the police/neighbours or it can prepare the owner that the system has been activated.
3. SAB module or Self Actuating Bell module this is basically the battery back up of the sounder that gets charged via the control panel but if the external sounder looses this supply it is designed to Self Actuate .
4. Tamper switch does what it says on the tin the tamper is a monitor circuit that signals to the control panel if the cable is cut or the sounder lid is removed plus if you activate the tamper switch the sounder will activate.
5. Comfort LEDs now 25 years ago I used to fit an LED to my sounder boxes to indicate it was a real alarm but things have moved on a bit ie flashing ,or flip flop with diagnostic LEDs.

How its wired
So here is how you wire an external sounder lets not talk about fitting 2 lets get the basics so first of all wire a 6 core between the sounder and the control panel so you fit the sounder box with the sounder activate link being out and also put the screw for the lid in without the lid and if it’s the type of sounder that the screw holds down the tamper switch then great because this lets you work on it.

So wiring is
Red +12vdc hold off or supply to the sounder
Black -12vdc hold off or supply to the sounder
Blue -12vdc switched signal from the CP to the sounder (sounder activation)
Yellow -12vdc return tamper signal from the sounder to the CP (tamper monitor)
Green -12vdc switched from the CP to the sounder (latched strobe output)
So the external sounder has a 12vdc +/- supply to power it
A -12vdc tamper monitor circuit
A -12vdc switched supply to activate the sounder
A – 12vdc switched supply to activate the strobe


Now you have the sounder wired with the screw put in to hold the tamper switch down and connected back at the CP. Now you can sort the link out that to activate the sounder now some sounders you remove a link or put one in.

Now this is the time to fit the CP battery so why have I left this until now well control panels are getting smaller by the day and having the battery fitted just makes it harder when connecting the circuits and remember to write the date of installation on the battery why because it needs to be changed every 5 years but we will talk about that later.

If everything is alright you can put the CP cover back on and reset the tamper alarm now you can go to the sounder with the lid and put it on remember the sounder will activate when you release the tamper switch so put the lid on then put the screw in and the sounder should go off when you secure the lid with the screw.

Yes the CP will be signalling a tamper alarm but whilst you are up the ladder check that you have the correct sequence of comfort LEDs then go back to the CP and reset the tamper alarm.

Your making me work too hard look at the text in red 5 cores yes I do mention six but last time I looked you can only buy 4 or 6 core

Read it again all the way through

 

[Lordy9099]

My bad sorry, but I am sure that I wired it up correctly and I checked it twice but I will check again to be certin although I have been told to do a continuity test and ensure that all cables are working and that it is the neg tamer return or -RTN that is causing the problem. Thanks

 

[telectrix]

stick the panel into alarm. voltmeter across +12v and bell trig. should get 12v. if you have it there, then check for same at bell.

- - - Updated - - -

stick the panel into alarm. voltmeter across +12v and bell trig. should get 12v. if you have it there, then check for same at bell. where abouts are you. sure someone is close enough to come over and have a look at it.

 

[Lordy9099]

I did that and I was getting about 7 and a bit volts :S

 

[telectrix]

so, the panel is not outputting. either it's a faulty panel, or you've buggered it. check the volts with the cable to the bell disconnected. you could have a short ( staple through cable perhaps).

 

[Lordy9099]

so, the panel is not outputting. either it's a faulty panel, or you've buggered it. check the volts with the cable to the bell disconnected. you could have a short ( staple through cable perhaps).

The cable was existing I just replaced the bell box and I have not touched the cable run but I do believe that the cable is damaged somewhere. It could well be that there is a staple in it somewhere but I have no idea where the cable runs. I hope that it is not plastered in and is not jammed somewhere so I can pull some new cable through.

 

[oldtimer]

OK
First thing
1. Disconnect the sounder completely at both ends
2. Replace the tamper link in the panel
3. Then press the panel spring and reset the panel if it resets then sounder tamper is ok plus circuit tamper to.
4. Check the cable going between the sounder and the box with your meter to ensure there is no short circuits
5. Follow the instructions I laid out earlier

 

[stranded]

Havent a clue myself, wheres tazz hiding? ;-)

 

[oldtimer]

Havent a clue myself, wheres tazz hiding? ;-)

Now if there was ever a electrician graveyard for intruder/burglar alarm this is the baby that just confuses the hell out of sparks so what’s the mystic around this


Thats the first line of my previous post its not hard you just have to read it not speed read

 

[tazz]

Oldtimer is giving all the correct proceedures to test/bell out the cable, Tele has it correct on test for voltage. only leaves me to say F3 on the board is the bell/strobe fuse check it

 

[tazz]

Lordy you have status leds on Reason siren unit....what are they stating...??

 

[Lordy9099]

Lordy you have status leds on Reason siren unit....what are they stating...??

Yes tamper healthy and hold off present and battery charging and they are all lit. Although if F3 was blown then wouldn't the strobe not work because the strobe does activate

 

[telectrix]

in the time that this thread's been running, could have fixed the fault, had a brew, screwed the customer's daughter, and still got home in time for star trek.

 

[oldtimer]

Lordy take a bit advise here from a guy who has met hundreds of guys like you and by the way its not a put down as I see this all the time if you look and read my external sounder post the answers are their for you and as I and Telextrix said earlier its all about breaking it down so if you disconnect the sounder put the tamper link in the panel make sure your other tamper links are healthy push the spring in and try to reset it this should prove your panel is ok if not then move on to the fuses once you get the panel to work then move on to the external sounder.

 

[tazz]

Cannot see the tamper being healthy if siren cover is off...??
Really suggest you follow Oldtimers, break down. So would say first, disconnect all siren cables from panel and replace link in A & T, when you have done this, let do some voltage tests.....sounds like going backwards, but i promise you its the only way forward.
Oldtimer is try to illiminate each possiblility, one section at a time, by doing this we will have the information we need to help you.