Swimming Pool Starter Help!

[dlt27]

Hi and thanks in advance.
I have been called to a job to look at a faulty starter for a swimming pool.
The starter apparently has never worked and swimming company has agreed to pay for it to be fixed ( there electrician has had 2 goes already).
The starter is supposed to be wired so that if there is a power cut the pump automatically restarts, also it is controlled by a 240v timer which also turns on 2 uv lights.
The starter at the moment never turns off by the timer and the reason for this I noticed straight away is that starter is a 415coil being controlled by a 240v timer.
The main trouble I've got is does anybody know if there is a starter with 240v coil and n/c contractor so after power cut it automatically restarts. Existing starter is Schneider LM35P714.Thanks again.

 

[westward10]

Unless I am missing something your drawing should function assuming the uv contactor coil is also 415v.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Will this work?

Yes, but you will need a timer with contacts rated to switch 400V.

Typically, 400V contactor coils are used for simple stand-alone starters etc to avoid having to run a neutral or add a transformer where a 3-wire circuit would be adequate for the load itself, e.g. just motors.

Once there are external control devices and single-phase 230V loads, that advantage of the 400V coil is lost and the need to use 400V rated contacts on everything is very limiting. Hence the preference for 230V or better still ELV controls if a transformer can be justified.

 

[Bobster]

Once there are external control devices and single-phase 230V loads, that advantage of the 400V coil is lost and the need to use 400V rated contacts on everything is very limiting. Hence the preference for 230V or better still ELV controls if a transformer can be justified.

Once external controls are introduced. Anything above a 230v control circuit is currently forbidden. It's not just preference, it's regulations.

 

[dlt27]

What regulation is that? Thank you

 

[Bobster]

Section 9 BS60204

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Sure thing, what I meant was that is that one doesn't want 400V coils and control circuits even within a panel, because 400V is harder to switch with small relays and control devices.

 

[Bobster]

Sure thing, what I meant was that is that one doesn't want 400V coils and control circuits even within a panel, because 400V is harder to switch with small relays and control devices.

Section 9 also covers this. Any more than 2 control devices and it needs a dedicated isolating transformer or psu.

Can't get much in the way of a control system with that. Hence the only 400v control you really see now a days is the dol in a box with a stop and start button. Even then these usually aren't wired control. Simply pushing the contactor in manually, then hitting the trip on the OL to stop.

 

[markythesparky]

On a lot of contactors there is a switch that sets the contactor to stay off in the event of a power failure or restart automatically.

Not sure how 230v will operate the 400v coil though!

Also the UV’s must turn off if the pump stops. They will burn out otherwise.

Where abouts are you?

 

[Pete999]

On a lot of contactors there is a switch that sets the contactor to stay off in the event of a power failure or restart automatically.

Not sure how 230v will operate the 400v coil though!

Also the UV’s must turn off if the pump stops. They will burn out otherwise.

Where abouts are you?

What is operating the 400Volt coil, are dry contacts on the 230 timer, somehow integrated into the 400 Volt control circuit, dangerous and I believe does not comply to BS 7671, cant give you the reg number if there is one, it was/is something in the back of my mind that is reminding me. Imagine the problems of a 230 V timer with NO/NC dry contacts, with a possible 400V sitting on them, not nice.

 

[Pete999]

Once external controls are introduced. Anything above a 230v control circuit is currently forbidden. It's not just preference, it's regulations.

Do you know the reg number Rob out of interest?

 

[westward10]

See #50.

 

[Pete999]

Section 9 BS60204

Thanks Rob Will take a look

 

[ipf]

Section 9 also covers this. Any more than 2 control devices and it needs a dedicated isolating transformer or psu.

Can't get much in the way of a control system with that. Hence the only 400v control you really see now a days is the dol in a box with a stop and start button. Even then these usually aren't wired control. Simply pushing the contactor in manually, then hitting the trip on the OL to stop.

Still come across plenty control panels with 400v control circuits but anything controlling remotely with 400v is definitely a no no.

Mind you, the only 'swimming pool starters' I've come across have been stood with a pistol...…….then all the swimmers dive in on trigger.

 

[Bobster]

Still come across plenty control panels with 400v control circuits but anything controlling remotely with 400v is definitely a no no.

Yes there's still plenty about. It's a no no to modify or instal new now though. Just the same as old wilex rewirable CUs. Still plenty around, you're not going to install new though.

Oh an I'll point out for those that don't know. Unlike 7671 the BSEN 60204 is statutory.

 

[mydigitalhome]

Why not a self resetting RCBO?