SY, CY None Compliant????

[Leesparkykent]

All the small installations in shops and the like are done like that up here.

I don't know why aircon guys are so adamant on using the stuff tbh and then glanding it wrongly lol

 

[ruston]

And using it outside. I know some manufacturers say theirs can be , but I would not do it.

 

[ipf]

On a job recently the aircon guys used SY everywhere, at every accessory they had just used stuffing glands. They were not happy bunnies when it come to snagging and I made them change all the stuffing glands for XT/CXT glands with banjos and fly leads where necessary:hurray:

.....and I'll bet they were cursing you. I had exactly the same at a restaurant, last year, with loads of it outside. They use it all over the country and couldn't understand the problem.
Did some at a school and used swa, SY didn't enter my thoughts.
Finding quite a bit of the stuff on present EICR too, used as 400v supplies to industrial car lifts, among other things.

 

[davesparks]

On a job recently the aircon guys used SY everywhere, at every accessory they had just used stuffing glands. They were not happy bunnies when it come to snagging and I made them change all the stuffing glands for XT/CXT glands with banjos and fly leads where necessary:hurray:

It could be worse, they could have had someone nasty like me snagging them!


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[edexlab]

Make of this what you will!

View attachment 32168

Only states it "discourages" us from using it. And as Andy has said above, move manufacturers state that their cab;le confirms to SOME parts but not all!

Jay

It does say to refer to other IEC or countries standards,

So if it is constructed to VDE and this conforms to IEC standards doesn't this mean it can be used?

I remember reading in the regs book a while ago, ( don't have it with me, )

At the beginning somewhere it says reference should be made to standards from other countries or IEC standards where there is no British standard for a product

I thought this implied
that as long as the cable / item has been tested / constructed to a standard recognisable as being equivalent or higher to BS it can be used ,

This would allow newly developed products not tested to BS to be used

Having regs stating non BS tested products can't be used would be very limiting for Industry

Can someone look it up and post it please, or if someone has a better understanding can they explain

We use a lot of SY for all motors, heaters power to solenoids etc and CY for controls along with Tronic cat 5, belden and network cabling, customer sorts out power supplies to all panels and machines

Generally the SY is glanded via stuffing glands but we always screen via a flying lead to terminals



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[ruston]

It does say to refer to other IEC or countries standards,

So if it is constructed to VDE and this conforms to IEC standards doesn't this mean it can be used?

I remember reading in the regs book a while ago, ( don't have it with me, )

At the beginning somewhere it says reference should be made to standards from other countries or IEC standards where there is no British standard for a product

I thought this implied
that as long as the cable / item has been tested / constructed to a standard recognisable as being equivalent or higher to BS it can be used ,

This would allow newly developed products not tested to BS to be used

Having regs stating non BS tested products can't be used would be very limiting for Industry

Can someone look it up and post it please, or if someone has a better understanding can they explain

We use a lot of SY for all motors, heaters power to solenoids etc and CY for controls along with Tronic cat 5, belden and network cabling, customer sorts out power supplies to all panels and machines

Generally the SY is glanded via stuffing glands but we always screen via a flying lead to terminals



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I posted a link awhile ago that one manufacturer confirmed that their SY did not comply with BS7671.
I think it was Eland Cables.

 

[ipf]

Came across an install done last year, air extract in industrial workshops.
Swa supplying control panel from 40a D type TP. Zs on the limit at the panel.
40m run to star/delta controlled motor, external to building. 2x SY cables, one for S the other for D, through 4 walls, via separate holes through steel, in each case. Stuff glanded with no sign of earthing the braid. Real pros these men with hardly a fix in sight for the swa and existing blank smashed and taped in the DB.
I'll try to get photos.

 

[ipf]

Which bit of that is a problem:banghead:

Try banging your head with a Zs of 0.32 for starters.....and that's 40m away from the motor.

 

[westward10]

Only joking, what I don't understand, not that I have ever installed it but I have remade an end off every now and then is this, it is a pig to make it off neatly so why do all these fools, generally A/C bods, sorry if you are reading this brother use the stuff!

 

[Darkwood]

Only joking, what I don't understand, not that I have ever installed it but I have remade an end off every now and then is this, it is a pig to make it off neatly so why do all these fools, generally A/C bods, sorry if you are reading this brother use the stuff!

Maybe because unwrapping the braid or pulling the cores through a gap in the braid to then sleeve it and earth it is a rough unprofessional method to terminating the cable, correct glands and tailed banjo's would be the preferred method but that means adding costs of expensive glands, also it has been mis-sold as a all round armoured flex when in fact its use is limited thus we have seen a massive rise in parrot Sparkies and Engineers (I've seen it done, so I'll do it!) use it incorrectly because they haven't spec'd the cable is correct for the job in hand.

There are too many now so called professionals out there that do not know how to do there own job anymore, ensuring the materials you use for a job are suitable is a crucial part of the job, seems that is a dying requirement of the trade hence we see such poor standards and dangerous methods out there.

 

[davesparks]

Only joking, what I don't understand, not that I have ever installed it but I have remade an end off every now and then is this, it is a pig to make it off neatly so why do all these fools, generally A/C bods, sorry if you are reading this brother use the stuff!

I've found it to be pretty simple to make an end off properly, what part of it do you find to be a pig?

 

[sunray]

I've found it to be pretty simple to make an end off properly, what part of it do you find to be a pig?

I have installed loads of the stuff within the controls environment. I have stopped using the 'proper glands' as I have had many failures where the 'proper gland' has damaged the screen to the point where it has broken.
I use a stuffing gland then unweave the braid to twist it into a single then green/yellow sleeve it into an earth terminal. Sometimes I use a butt splice and extend it with a green/yellow single.
Of course only the feeding end is earthed when it's used between VSD and motor.

 

[LeeH]

Pigtails are not suitable for EMC compliance, you need to use the correct gland or terminate it into the VSD chassis clamps.

Also the screen should be connected from the VSD chassis back to the motor frame.

Edit: and another thing. Seeing you cannot buy a concentric SY (3 core without a green yellow core) it's not really a suitable VSD cable at all.

 

[Spoon]

I have installed loads of the stuff within the controls environment...... Sometimes I use a butt splice and extend it with a green/yellow single.

Should be sleeving it Cream and not Green/Yellow. See Table 51 (BYB page 120)

 

[westward10]

I was asked this many years ago and never got a definitive answer. My opinion is the braid should be earthed but can you give any info as to where this is stated, is it staring me in the face somewhere?