UK synchronisation of storage heaters and Economy 7 supply timings.

[keithrawes]

please could somebody tell me how storage heaters are linked/synchronised with the electricity supplier so that they switch themselves off and on to coincide with the timings of the Economy 7 rate. In my case, for example, the E7 timings are allegedly 11.30 to 6.30am but the storage heaters are still taking in current up to 8.30 am. Is this 'extra' two hours being charged for at the day or night rate and how do i find out. All enquiries to SSE and Dimplex have got nowhere. Thanks.

 

[Zerax]

I had a situation years ago with my gas supply... a fraudster switched my gas supply to a new company, who starting billing me based on estimated readings. I was still paying the existing supplier who had no idea of any switch... Took several years to sort out, despite umpteen letters/emails/phone calls.

 

[keithrawes]

As above, it sounds like the time switch is at the wrong time, they have battery's to keep them working during power cuts but batteries can fail. Time switches should be set to GMT. You should be able to check the time setting by looking at the front of the time switch, post a close up pic if you are having difficulty reading it.

hallo again - i have now managed to get pics of (1) my meter and (2) its immediate surroundings.
First point. My meter is no 42 and the timer switch can be seen alonside it. As i suspected it seems to indicate that the Economy 7 night rate is not from 11.30 to 6.30 as the supplier claims. Any observations would be welcome.
Second point, the meter is showing a reading of 86546 with a small black square above it. Does this tell you whether it is the day or the night rate? Or is there some other way this can be established from the pic?
Third point, an engineer from the predominant supplier to this block of about fifty flats is reported as saying that it is not pratically possible to install smart meters here because there are several meter cupboards in different parts of the building. Does this seem plausible?

 

[keithrawes]

Sounds like the timing is out of synch, but that can work to your advantage, because the whole installation will be on off peak too, as advised a pic of the set up please.

hallo again - i have now managed to get pics of (1) my meter and (2) its immediate surroundings.
First point. My meter is no 42 and the timer switch can be seen alonside it. As i suspected it seems to indicate that the Economy 7 night rate is not from 11.30 to 6.30 as the supplier claims. Any observations would be welcome.
Second point, the meter is showing a reading of 86546 with a small black square above it. Does this tell you whether it is the day or the night rate? Or is there some other way this can be established from the pic?
Third point, an engineer from the predominant supplier to this block of about fifty flats is reported as saying that it is not pratically possible to install smart meters here because there are several meter cupboards in different parts of the building. Does this seem plausible?

 

[keithrawes]

Storage heaters are normally switched by the supply authority timeswitch, which will change the tariff over at the same time. If your heaters are still live at 8.30 it is possible the timeswitch is out, but nevertheless the tariff will still switch over with the heaters, so it doesnt make any difference.
A pic of the meter setup would clarify.

hallo again - i have now managed to get pics of (1) my meter and (2) its immediate surroundings.
First point. My meter is no 42 and the timer switch can be seen alonside it. As i suspected it seems to indicate that the Economy 7 night rate is not from 11.30 to 6.30 as the supplier claims. Any observations would be welcome.
Second point, the meter is showing a reading of 86546 with a small black square above it. Does this tell you whether it is the day or the night rate? Or is there some other way this can be established from the pic?
Third point, an engineer from the predominant supplier to this block of about fifty flats is reported as saying that it is not pratically possible to install smart meters here because there are several meter cupboards in different parts of the building. Does this seem plausible?

 

[snowhead]

What time did you take the photo?
The Sangamo clock is showing the current time as around 9 am.

Looks to be set to ON at 12.30 am OFF at 7.30 am
Ignore the second ON peg and the second OFF peg , they won't have any effect on switching.

If I remember from when Sangamo clocks were more widely used the time was normally set to GMT + 1/2hr / BST -1/2 hr so they didn't have to be adjusted for Summer time.

2 rate meters normally display the reading for the current rate

Re Smart Meters, Eventually truelly Smart Meters, not the incorrectly named things they're using now, will be the only option.
The issue with flats and other similar large buildings is the Customer In Home Display won't connect to the meter, the signal gets blocked.
Using a wired link is not practical for existing installations so they'll have to come up with a solution, which I'm sure they will, maybe not in this Millenium tho.

 

[keithrawes]

Thank you very much for your help. First point, I didn't take the photo but our housekeeper did so can't be sure of the exact time but would bet it was 10 rather than 9 as i now have a indicator light on the storage heater switch in the flat and it actually goes off at 8.30 - not the 6.30 claimed by the supplier or the 7.30 seemingly according to the timer.

Second point, and this is complicated, the figures on the meter are given on my bill as the day rate. I have now been here a year and after being suspicious of the amount of the bill stopped using the storage heater and reverted to using individual heaters during the day. And what happened? The NIGHT rate numbers DOUBLED and the DAY rate numbers HALVED. So clearly somewhere there the allocations are being switched. I will try and check further which figures our house manager was looking at when she took the pic. But how is this done? - Is there a switch or something on the meter that changes the numbers appearing in the frame from day rate to night rate? or is more complex than that? And if the figures are appearing accurately on the meter where is the fault occurring?

Third point, your point about the complex wiring necessary for IHDs in a block of flats where there are several different meter cupboards makes everything much clearer. So what it means, in effect, is IF the supplier is not providing an internet service so you can look up your usage there is little point in getting a smart meter. Yes?

Again, many thanks, keith

 

[brianmoooore]

Is there a figure in the little black box above the first '8' in he pic. of your meter. If there is, this will be the rate you are being charged at that time, and the numbers in the display might be the total used at that rate, or possibly the total used to date on both rates.
Have another look at the meter early in the morning and see if the black box shows a different number. If the total shown on the display is completely different from that shown during the day, then it will be displaying the total for the night rate. If it is just a few on from the total shown in the pic., then it's displaying the total used for both rates. Cross reference these readings with your bill.
I strongly recommend that everyone reads and keeps a record of their meter readings every couple of months at least. Over the last two decades I've been billed with readings from a meter that had been changed four years before, and on another occasion, had all readings ignored (both read by me and official meter readers) because my meter had six digits and the suppliers records said it had five.
Note that if they find that they have been under charging you, and no fraud involved, then they can only claim the outstanding amount for the last 12 months.
One of my customers has been informing their supplier that they are being undercharged for several years, without action on their part. The supplier has now admitted that they are at fault, and the amount undercharged is about £20,000, but my customer is only liable for about £3000. Note their 'correct' bill is some £5000 a

 

[snowhead]

I don't believe you can change the displayed reading on those meters manually.
They take the readings by use of a handset.
It may cycle through all the readings for a short while then return to current rate.

The Daytime rate should have a 1 over the first number and Off Peak would be 2.
Total through the meter would most likely be T.

To me the displayed number doesn't look like 1, more like 2 suggesting it was at the time recording the Off Peak useage.

 

[keithrawes]

thanks very much, that is just what i needed to know

 

[keithrawes]

Is there a figure in the little black box above the first '8' in he pic. of your meter. If there is, this will be the rate you are being charged at that time, and the numbers in the display might be the total used at that rate, or possibly the total used to date on both rates.
Have another look at the meter early in the morning and see if the black box shows a different number. If the total shown on the display is completely different from that shown during the day, then it will be displaying the total for the night rate. If it is just a few on from the total shown in the pic., then it's displaying the total used for both rates. Cross reference these readings with your bill.
I strongly recommend that everyone reads and keeps a record of their meter readings every couple of months at least. Over the last two decades I've been billed with readings from a meter that had been changed four years before, and on another occasion, had all readings ignored (both read by me and official meter readers) because my meter had six digits and the suppliers records said it had five.
Note that if they find that they have been under charging you, and no fraud involved, then they can only claim the outstanding amount for the last 12 months.
One of my customers has been informing their supplier that they are being undercharged for several years, without action on their part. The supplier has now admitted that they are at fault, and the amount undercharged is about £20,000, but my customer is only liable for about £3000. Note their 'correct' bill is some £5000 a

thanks very much brian for all your help