Terminating 50mm solid conductor

[davesparks]

I have a job coming up the week after next where I have to terminate a 50mm solid core incomer into a Schneider standard 125A single phase main switch in an acti 9 board.

The plan I have come up with is to get the little adaptors Schneider make to allow a lugged connection to be made to the main switch, this bit I'm happy with.
But then all I can think of to actually fit the lug to the conductor is to find the closest matching lug and sweat it on.
Whilst I am capable of doing this I would appreciate any suggestions that don't involve hot works permits, fire alarm isolation and the perceived risk of setting fire to an old, well known and listed west end theatre!

 

[NDG Elecs]

Open any windows and cling film over the sensors are my two (rubbish!) pearls of non wisdom! A RA and a extinguisher by your side maybe....

 

[Robson689]

Is it acceptable to crimp the lugs on? I do it often with 8mm diameter (50mm CSA) solid copper conductors but this isn't for electrical connections which is why I ask.

 

[Bobster]

You can buy specific crimps and dies for solid core conductors. Just ask at a decent wholesaler and I'm sure they would be able to rent you the crimper.

 

[GEOFF S]

I have a job coming up the week after next where I have to terminate a 50mm solid core incomer into a Schneider standard 125A single phase main switch in an acti 9 board.

The plan I have come up with is to get the little adaptors Schneider make to allow a lugged connection to be made to the main switch, this bit I'm happy with.
But then all I can think of to actually fit the lug to the conductor is to find the closest matching lug and sweat it on.
Whilst I am capable of doing this I would appreciate any suggestions that don't involve hot works permits, fire alarm isolation and the perceived risk of setting fire to an old, well known and listed west end theatre!

Hi

Copper or Aluminum Dave?

Cheers

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I've used the Klauke products from the following range on round conductor and been happy with the results:
Tubular cable lugs from copper, for solid conductors, 6 - 50 mm²

One weakness with using conventional crimp lugs on solid cable is the CSA of the lug tube material can be rather small, making it mechanically flimsy relative to the cable. BICC Burndy used to make a special lug for solid with a collet chuck that tightened onto the cable with a pair of spanners. Haven't seen them for years, I guess they were ridiculously expensive to make.

 

[Andy78]

I don't have any experience with solid conductors of this size at all so forgive me if this sounds naive or daft.

I have noticed in the past that such devices to 60947/60898 usually state a maximum terminal capacity for copper conductors of 35mm stranded and 50mm solid. Would it be at all possible to make a good connection directly into the terminal ? I have no idea of the malleability of a conductor of this size or whether the correct purchase could be gained. I assume it would have to be pre formed in some way to fit the terminal properly.
My instincts say no, but would there be an acceptable method of direct connection if the terminals are rated for the size ?

 

[GEOFF S]

Hi

If its copper, then just crimp, i wouldn't solder, its actually more problematic. You have two options, use a din compression lug with a din compression tool, these can be hired. Or use a copper tubular lug and a good indent crimp tool.

Cheers

 

[hasel5]

Best of luck with that as sounds a nightmare

 

[PEG]

Lucien is on the money,Klauke make and supply the kit for this job. Their catalogue used to have the tools and fittings,together with the relevant methods and approvals.

I think the number of outfits hiring out expensive kit such as this,would be few...but it is great gear.

I was approached,a while back,by a company venturing in to the induction heat-gun market. These are 230/120V powered devices,used for jobs previously requiring a blow-torch,or oxy/propane gear,such as freeing fastenings and soldering.

If you need a hot-works ticket for soft/hard soldering 280-650 degrees,then really,you should require one for your cordless,with a blunt bit,that could get to 1300+...if not,the induction tackle may be the future...:army:

 

[davesparks]

Hi

Copper or Aluminum Dave?

Cheers

Copper, it's a pair of single core micc.

 

[davesparks]

Lucien is on the money,Klauke make and supply the kit for this job. Their catalogue used to have the tools and fittings,together with the relevant methods and approvals.

I think the number of outfits hiring out expensive kit such as this,would be few...but it is great gear.

I was approached,a while back,by a company venturing in to the induction heat-gun market. These are 230/120V powered devices,used for jobs previously requiring a blow-torch,or oxy/propane gear,such as freeing fastenings and soldering.

If you need a hot-works ticket for soft/hard soldering 280-650 degrees,then really,you should require one for your cordless,with a blunt bit,that could get to 1300+...if not,the induction tackle may be the future...:army:

The issue is more that the heat source would be a naked flame cos a blowtorch is all I have for sweating it with

 

[davesparks]

I don't have any experience with solid conductors of this size at all so forgive me if this sounds naive or daft.

I have noticed in the past that such devices to 60947/60898 usually state a maximum terminal capacity for copper conductors of 35mm stranded and 50mm solid. Would it be at all possible to make a good connection directly into the terminal ? I have no idea of the malleability of a conductor of this size or whether the correct purchase could be gained. I assume it would have to be pre formed in some way to fit the terminal properly.
My instincts say no, but would there be an acceptable method of direct connection if the terminals are rated for the size ?

The terminals are rated for the size, but there is a bit of a back story.
The job is basically to get rid of a ridiculous joint box where the 50mm MI joints to singles (2.5mm) which feed the 2way board with just the one 16A mcb in it.
So moving the board 6" along the wall and terminating the cable directly into it, but the bloke who is responsible for this abortion has told my customer that it's impossible to put the solid cores direct into the terminals because it'll burst into flames through poor connection (at 16A on a 50mm I could file the conductor flat to fit the terminal better and still it wouldn't get warm!)

This customer is one of those rare ones who always pay before the invoice due date, never question a quoted price and prefer to pay for quality over quantity, so I am more than happy to go the extra mile to keep them happy.

 

[davesparks]

I've used the Klauke products from the following range on round conductor and been happy with the results:
Tubular cable lugs from copper, for solid conductors, 6 - 50 mm²

One weakness with using conventional crimp lugs on solid cable is the CSA of the lug tube material can be rather small, making it mechanically flimsy relative to the cable. BICC Burndy used to make a special lug for solid with a collet chuck that tightened onto the cable with a pair of spanners. Haven't seen them for years, I guess they were ridiculously expensive to make.

I've seen a lug which appears to just knock on and wedge in place in an old bicc book about micc, but assume such things are long gone.

What I'd like to see is something like a lug which attaches via set screws for this sort of thing, like those mechanical through connectors with shear bolts, but a lug.

 

[HandySparks]

What I'd like to see is something like a lug which attaches via set screws for this sort of thing, like those mechanical through connectors with shear bolts, but a lug.

Like these:
Shear Bolt Connectors - SWA

Though why they appear to be available in aluminium only, I don't know. (Says they're suitable for copper conductors.)

 

[PEG]

Like these:
Shear Bolt Connectors - SWA

Though why they appear to be available in aluminium only, I don't know. (Says they're suitable for copper conductors.)

They look like a way round the problem,probably quite expensive...BEFORE they tell you there only in bags of ten!

 

[GEOFF S]

They look like a way round the problem,probably quite expensive...BEFORE they tell you there only in bags of ten!

Hi

Im not so sure they are, are they suitable for class 1 Cu cable, i don't think they are, solid Al yes, not solid Cu. Crimping is the best way, leaves very little in the way of air gaps. Use a Din compression lug and tool, or tubular lug with good indent tool. Klauke do both, also with tubular they have two variations L and R, R having a very high copper content.If you are concerned, RS do temp stickers, wrap around at termination, pretty acurate.

Cheers

 

[HandySparks]

Hi

Im not so sure they are, are they suitable for class 1 Cu cable, i don't think they are, solid Al yes, not solid Cu.

Quote off the SWA web page:
"Suitable for both copper or aluminium - stranded or solid"

 

[GEOFF S]

Quote off the SWA web page:
"Suitable for both copper or aluminium - stranded or solid"

Hi

Yes it seems to suggest they are okay, the other issue is size, they are quite bulky. A good crimp will be fine in my opinion.

Cheers

 

[benji]

pyrotenax used to do mechanical compression lugs

 

[davesparks]

Hi

Yes it seems to suggest they are okay, the other issue is size, they are quite bulky. A good crimp will be fine in my opinion.

Cheers

I agree that crimping would be the best option, but unfortunately for just two connections it is proving to be a very expensive exercise.
Especially considering that this whole job is a remedial from a highly suspicious EICR, and I don't really agree that it needs doing in the first place.

 

[GEOFF S]

I agree that crimping would be the best option, but unfortunately for just two connections it is proving to be a very expensive exercise.
Especially considering that this whole job is a remedial from a highly suspicious EICR, and I don't really agree that it needs doing in the first place.

Hi Dave

Do you not know anyone with a good indent crimper, the lugs are cheap enough, prysmian/biccon do a BT range which are good. Being a solid conductor A BT35 might fit failing that a BT50.

Cheers

 

[davesparks]

Hi Dave

Do you not know anyone with a good indent crimper, the lugs are cheap enough, prysmian/biccon do a BT range which are good. Being a solid conductor A BT35 might fit failing that a BT50.

I've got a reasonable indent crimper somewhere, if standard sized dies are suitable? I have assumed it would need to be special sized ones?

 

[GEOFF S]

Hi Dave

Just make sure you get some good quality lugs, Klauke or Biccon.

Cheers