Terminating an armoured onto a cee form plug....bad practice?

[Tidy Max]

Alreety chaps,

got a quick one for you.

How do you all feel about terminating armored cable onto a 32A ceeform plug? If i went to a job and saw this i would think it was abit odd/what cowboy had done it, HOWEVER.

A client has had a bit of a man shed built in his back yard and it covers the drain cover. So with that in mind its been made so if any emergency access is needed to the drains (re: banging poo) the shed can be moved with a pallet truck....... but not if my armored is permanently terminated.

So, i figured i would be best running the armor out of the shed, up to a ceeform/isolator on the wall. It will most likely sit there for years and never be unplugged, but in the event it needs to be the client doesn't need to contact a spark or take a screwdriver in his hand and do some damage. He can just flip the isolator and unplug the shed and move it with the pallet truck!

I can't say ive ever seen an armoured into a ceeform though its always SY. But...is it really that bad to do?!

 

[Darkwood]

Why not terminate your SWA into a permanently fixed socket on the back wall and plug a 3 core SY from the shed in to the socket?

I would be cautious with this advice and anyone considering using SY outdoors should consult with manufacturers as they vary but the general theme is the clear sheath provides very poor UV protection also some manufacturers state suitable for outdoor use when protected.... now your interpretation of what protected means is open for debate..

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Whilst I'm inclined to agree with you, it's not all that bad - there are far worse crimes! I had to resort to putting a 63A plug on the end of a 3c SWA a few weeks ago as a means to power a temp hut on a building site where there was a roadway in the way - just bonded the cable at the supply end only. (There was other protection to it, btw, ramps etc, but I wouldn't have been happy using anything other than an armoured)

+1...............use exactly the same with 16-32-63a wander sockets on the end of an SWA, plugged into an inlet socket on site units all the time. Criteria is invariably maximum mechanical protection and minimum cost,and easy removal/resiting of units.

 

[chopper76]

I'm thinking the problem is no one has confirmed/decided wether or no this installation is a permanent or temporary one, you guys have suggested using swa but plugged in and just I assume draped along the ground and left there till such a time as the client has a massive curry,If its just draped along the ground anyway there's no way he's going to bother unplug it to move the shed

 

[tom79bmth]

You should get out more!

Piranhna Earth Nuts - Pirahna

PS available in other good wholesalers.

Ahhh is that what there called, I have always called them the thingy ma ghing for earthing swa gland

 

[Tidy Max]

The installation is permanant, its not a temporary shed.

The whoke point of using the armored is to avoid using SY.

The cable will most certainly NOT be draped along the floor! It will be cleated all around. Im sure the client can undo a couple of cleats if required rather than unterminating (de-terminating?)

Ta for the replies

 

[Tidy Max]

ahhhh i didnt realise there name either! Pirahna nuts for the win!

 

[Toonlad]

Why not make two sockets, one at the wall (i presume) the other on the shed. Then use a link cable with two plugs. This way any damage can be easily fixed on the short removable peice. Another thought for you

 

[Darkwood]

+1...............use exactly the same with 16-32-63a wander sockets on the end of an SWA, plugged into an inlet socket on site units all the time. Criteria is invariably maximum mechanical protection and minimum cost,and easy removal/resiting of units.

I understand the requirement for max mechanical protection but is it not the case that it can be terminated into a rigid point regardless and omit the need for a plug socket kit...... minimum cost isn't a good enough reason to take shot cuts IMHO ive been called out to sites before and the state of these so called swa to ceeform joints is something to be believed SAFETY is the number 1 priority and whether an install is Temp or Permanent the BS standards should be applied..... swa is not designed for terminating into ceeform trailer plug and sockets, consider the swa which ive seen just chopped (earth of course other end) and taped off then just locked in place with the ceeform cable grip..... if you bend the cable close to this plug or socket the lack of clamping on the swa can see it pushing steel wire forward into the live terminals of the plug as the inside of the bend tries to lose its compression forces imposed on the steel wire. Ill hold strong in my opinion on this due to the number of times ive seen these joints onsite fail, become dangerous and still been handled ...well ive lost count TBH. Its not what the swa is designed for nor the ceeform trailing plugs and sockets again i say i don't care if its for 1 day or 100days it still has to be hold up to the criteria set out in the bs7671. Now yes i see the issue in that you have to comply to 704-522-8-10 as well as 704-511-1 but this does not mean you can use an swa with a ceeform style trailer point on the end but you should terminate into a fixed outlet whether it be a well sited power point IP rated or without an IP rated enclosure or terminated to an IP rated joint on the site cab itself.... if be the case you have to come out to disconnect to resite these huts then be it but cutting corners to keep costs down isn't an excuse that holds well with me.

 

[spark 68]

Why not make two sockets, one at the wall (i presume) the other on the shed. Then use a link cable with two plugs. This way any damage can be easily fixed on the short removable peice. Another thought for you

Seriously ?

You have not thought this through have you ?

 

[Darkwood]

Yes toonlad i assume you didn't mean that how you wrote it... a very embarrassing boo boo on here hmmmm a cable with a plug on either end now what could go wrong!!!!!

 

[D Skelton]

I would be cautious with this advice and anyone considering using SY outdoors should consult with manufacturers as they vary but the general theme is the clear sheath provides very poor UV protection also some manufacturers state suitable for outdoor use when protected.... now your interpretation of what protected means is open for debate..

I'd be using SY in this situation any day over SWA. Just give it a nice coat of UV protect and away you go

 

[Guest55]

I'd be using SY in this situation any day over SWA. Just give it a nice coat of UV protect and away you go

agreed.
flex & plug - job done , why over-think things ?
and the hand-wringging going on in this thread is ridiculous , some sound like a bunch of old house wives.
UV degradation in the UK ? you're assuming we have consistant sun lol , they have bigger snow problems in the sahara.
wrap some coloured tape round the damn cable , FFS.

 

[Tidy Max]

Im still not really seeing the benefit of using SY to be honest!

And i wont be wrappping tape around anything lol cost isn't a factor.

Everything about the install should be treated as permanent bar the fact im trying to enable the customer to totally disconnect the shed himself (safely) IF the situation should ever arise.

I have always used SY for commercial kitchen appliances and in environments like that. Ive never used it in an external situation. But that is most likely due to inexperience on my part!

Cheers for all the replies but it seems to come down to opinion rather than regs. The plug i have has a threaded stuffer in the end so i can terminate the swa gland into the plug.

If part of the issue is that the armor can wiggle loose of the standard ceeform gland through prolonged use. What stoos the SY armor doing the same? Because its insulation is flexible?

Cheers again

(also, whats hand wringing?!)

 

[Darkwood]

If part of the issue is that the armor can wiggle loose of the standard ceeform gland through prolonged use. What stops the SY armor doing the same? Because its insulation is flexible?

The appropriate SY glands if used are designed to ensure the screen doesn't come lose with the occasional flexing for which they were designed, considering that SY is a originally made for control wiring with screen that has somehow found itself been utilised for rough service cabling which a majority of the time its unsuitable for. If you check with manufacturers some do stress that it shouldn't be used as a power cable and/or isn't suitable for outdoors (although not always the case) ..where it is used consideration must be taken that it can meet then needs for which it is used without compromising the integrity of the cable. Your already using it with an incorrect gland then point out its as much chance of pulling free?..... well yes i can only agree as you haven't terminated it correctly.

 

[Darkwood]

agreed.
flex & plug - job done , why over-think things ?
and the hand-wringging going on in this thread is ridiculous , some sound like a bunch of old house wives.
UV degradation in the UK ? you're assuming we have consistant sun lol , they have bigger snow problems in the sahara.
wrap some coloured tape round the damn cable , FFS.

Got to apologise here Biff if i sound like a old wife but i do machinery and controls and know exactly the potential of SY and what it can and can't be used for through lengthy chats with the manufacturers ....i so often see it used as some form of extension lead often without the braiding earthed up an what you find is the outer soft clear plastic moisture barrier gets damaged and the braiding gets wrapped, twisted corkscrewed etc as well as turning rusty if in damp areas and the someone catches the cable and the braiding is pierced through into a live wire .....no bang! no indication of the damage just a flex on the floor with live!!! braid on it.... if you have your day in court i doubt with a cavalier attitude you have would see you walk out scot fee.... The OP asked opinions if he doesn't get the pro and cons of suggested methods then he too will walk away with a cavalier approach to his working practices when he came for an educated response from the experienced members....what he does with what he reads is down to him but at least he had read 2 sides of the debate.