The 2391 pass/fail rate....

[Electricalserv]

Interesting to see that when I passed mine (June 2010) it was one of the lowest pass rates guilds have ever seen. Just 39% passed and 61% failed.

Anyone else sit this one???? That dreaded volt drop question was the one I think most people would have fallen short on....

http://www.cityandguilds.com/documents/2391-301-2010-06-CER-v1(1).pdf

 

[IQ Electrical]

What do you want to know, if you know the VD %'s and the formula ( and can transpose it) the question will fill in the blanks - you won't be expected to remember milliohms per meter values for conductors - though you will likeliy know those for common sizes.

The problems on this question arose because candidates were given 'conductor resistance per meter' only in the question.

So, a large proportion did not allow for the volt drop in the neutral conductor.

As we know, the mV/A/m values in BS 7671:2008 are fully inclusive.

Personally, I think the 2391-10 is set at the right level of difficulty and as Des said, it has not suffered from the fashionable 'dumbing down' that other qualifications have had. It has not been devalued.

As for the Training providers, why should they have to 'vet' candidates for suitability, there's enough information out there for anyone considering enrolling for this qualification to be able to see what's required of them.

Like any decent qualification, you need to put some decent effort and work into it to pass, you need to go above and beyond the college course and spend time reading and understanding Guidance Note 3 and the procedures described in it.

 

[PC Electrics]

The problems on this question arose because candidates were given 'conductor resistance per meter' only in the question.

So, a large proportion did not allow for the volt drop in the neutral conductor.

As we know, the mV/A/m values in BS 7671:2008 are fully inclusive.

Personally, I think the 2391-10 is set at the right level of difficulty and as Des said, it has not suffered from the fashionable 'dumbing down' that other qualifications have had. It has not been devalued.

As for the Training providers, why should they have to 'vet' candidates for suitability, there's enough information out there for anyone considering enrolling for this qualification to be able to see what's required of them.

Like any decent qualification, you need to put some decent effort and work into it to pass, you need to go above and beyond the college course and spend time reading and understanding Guidance Note 3 and the procedures described in it.

Here, here!

This is just the sort of questioning that was used when I did my degree. It's not a trick, it's deliberately designed to ensure the candidate has read and understood the question as well as the fundamentals of the subject at hand.

 

[robskiing]

I was thinking of doing 2391 in September at my local college the tutor there recommended you do the 2392 beforehand do you think this would give you good grounding before tackling the 2391

 

[IQ Electrical]

I was thinking of doing 2391 in September at my local college the tutor there recommended you do the 2392 beforehand do you think this would give you good grounding before tackling the 2391

Personally, I think it would be an expensive 'pre-course'.

 

[Electricalserv]

The results are only of those who took the theory assessment. Many others would have failed on the practical before even reaching the theory.

The 2391 is focused alot on theory and technical knowledge of electrical systems. Its o.k being able to throw a few rings together and a few lighting circuits but understanding the installation and how it works is a totally different scenario and it sorts the men from the boys.

 

[Phil]

the examiner's report is really interesting. basically says that the centers should not be entering students who are blatantly not ready and do not understand the principles underlying the process of T+E>

thats true and i agree mate, but lets say if the only ones to do the 91 were capable of passing the pass rates would go through the roof and everyone would be saying it had been dumbed down. double edged sword me thinks

 

[Geordie Spark]

I did 2391 at college and found the whole thing to be extremely rushed.

The fact the tutor had a bit of a speech impediment & kept confusing the words "Insulation" & "Installation" didn't help much either !!

 

[jaresquire]

Perhaps he needed some electrocution lessons, I mean elocution of course..

 

[trick60]

The thing that sticks in my mind back in the the day when I took my 2391, was the noise when we we all turned over our exam papers......60 electricians bumholes twitching like rabbits noses.

Still don't know how I scraped a pass.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Perhaps he needed some electrocution lessons, I mean elocution of course..

He was South African - with a South African accent, had a stammer & kept mixing similar words up i.e. "Installation" & "Insulation" ....... VERY confusing !!

 

[brucelee]

Interesting to see that when I passed mine (June 2010) it was one of the lowest pass rates guilds have ever seen. Just 39% passed and 61% failed.

Anyone else sit this one???? That dreaded volt drop question was the one I think most people would have fallen short on....

http://www.cityandguilds.com/documents/2391-301-2010-06-CER-v1(1).pdf

Hi mate
I did the june 2010 exam supose it depends on the questions and the candidates but C&G seem to alter the exam to adjust pass rate as it suits them
everyone i seen though seems to have a few sneaky questions so its just one of them with C&G who knows what goes on

 

[brucelee]

The problems on this question arose because candidates were given 'conductor resistance per meter' only in the question.

So, a large proportion did not allow for the volt drop in the neutral conductor.

As we know, the mV/A/m values in BS 7671:2008 are fully inclusive.

Personally, I think the 2391-10 is set at the right level of difficulty and as Des said, it has not suffered from the fashionable 'dumbing down' that other qualifications have had. It has not been devalued.

As for the Training providers, why should they have to 'vet' candidates for suitability, there's enough information out there for anyone considering enrolling for this qualification to be able to see what's required of them.

Like any decent qualification, you need to put some decent effort and work into it to pass, you need to go above and beyond the college course and spend time reading and understanding Guidance Note 3 and the procedures described in it.

Hi IQ I agree with you mate

I studied every day for 4 month about 12 hrs a day and it still was nerve racking lol
flew through it but the volt drop one had me
i was getting confused with trying to work it out from the only way i been shown mv/A/m x Ib x L / 1000 but in my head ohms law kept coming in so i just started to work out from given data
worked out the resistance then multiplied by the load of 45A i think
I did muliply the resistance by two as the question said a 10mm at connected in parallel so line and neutral lol m/ohm/m 1.83
R = m/ohm/m x length divided by 1000
= 1.83 x 2 x 80m /1000
= 292.8 /1000
= 0.292.8
rounded up to 0.3 Ohm
Vd = 0.3 x 45 = 13.5v

someone told me i should have included increase in temp due to operating temp
which as at this point i was letting the nerves get the better of me i didnt include
which i bellieve is 1.2 for cables bunched or incorporated in a multicore cable

 

[pushrod]

thats true and i agree mate, but lets say if the only ones to do the 91 were capable of passing the pass rates would go through the roof and everyone would be saying it had been dumbed down. double edged sword me thinks

Also wouldn't be able to charge the exam entry fee of which no doubt they get a cut!

 

[Dunc]

I did 2391 about 5 years ago now and found it to be quite an enjoyable experience as it was a bit of a challenge. I think it helped that i did it fairly soon after gaining my main qualifications and finishing my apprenticeship as it was all fairly fresh in my head. I felt that i learnt a lot from doing it as it's surprising how many bad habits the people i was working with had picked up over the years. Passed it first time too which gives me a sense of achievement seeing as how the pass rate is so low.