The age old Grid switch topic

[Oldshape]

@Oldshape I see no comments?!

I know. I couldn't reply to each item so I put answers within the text

 

[Oldshape]

You have some very odd ideas which you are stating as though they were fact. My thoughts:


A plug and socket is fine as a means of isolation.
Not my usual sparky, but I had another one around to my present house to estimate a smoke alarm system. Over a brew he told me all these additional facts. The plug and socket as an isolation means must be (Obviously) above worktop and clearly labeled. But function switches / sockets aren't labelled.

Nothing wrong with an appliance socket in a cupboard.
If it is the isolation switch, it is wrong. Can't be shifting the cornflakes to find it.

Really?
Yep. The isolation switches have to be clearly visible and accessible.


The boiler and its controls should normally be on the same supply.
I thought so.

Put the fan on the socket circuit via a socket or fused connection unit.
Because? Does it not make sense to have the three cooking items on their own circuit?

Why on earth would you run a ring circuit to a single accessory?
Because it will be expanded to serve outside sheds etc.


Don't complicate things by making rings where they're not required and not expected.
Is it never expected to have lighting as a ring? Certainly not needed for safety anymore, as all the bulbs are 20w maximum.

Eh? Why?
So that visitors (Including fireman, mo-in-law) to the house can clearly isolate.

 

[Oldshape]

[HandySparks, post: 1221399, member: 39513"]You have some very odd ideas which you are stating as though they were fact. My thoughts:


A plug and socket is fine as a means of isolation.
Not my usual sparky, but I had another one around to my present house to estimate a smoke alarm system. Over a brew he told me all these additional facts. The plug and socket as an isolation means must be (Obviously) above worktop and clearly labeled. But function switches / sockets aren't labelled.

Nothing wrong with an appliance socket in a cupboard.
If it is the isolation switch, it is wrong. Can't be shifting the cornflakes to find it.

Really?
Yep. The isolation switches have to be clearly visible and accessible.


The boiler and its controls should normally be on the same supply.
I thought so.

Put the fan on the socket circuit via a socket or fused connection unit.
Because? Does it not make sense to have the three cooking items on their own circuit?

Why on earth would you run a ring circuit to a single accessory?
Because it will be expanded to serve outside sheds etc.


Don't complicate things by making rings where they're not required and not expected.
Is it never expected to have lighting as a ring? Certainly not needed for safety anymore, as all the bulbs are 20w maximum.

Eh? Why?
So that visitors (Including fireman, mo-in-law) to the house can clearly isolate.

 

[Midwest]

I think you might have to repost that. It's probably the shock of Trump being made President, but I haven't got the foggiest what you are saying above?

 

[Oldshape]

HandySparks asked a heap of questions, which I couldn't answer individually. So I copy/pasted the lot, with my answers. See his Q further up the thread.

 

[Midwest]

HandySparks asked a heap of questions, which I couldn't answer individually. So I copy/pasted the lot, with my answers. See his Q further up the thread.

I understand, I've balls'd up posting before now. Perhaps if you re-tried it might make more sense. Just saying.

 

[Wilko]

Hi Oldshape,
Just on the free standing appliances that come with plugs, i.e. your washer, dryer and fridge planned for the Utility Room. I know of no regulation that says these can't be put where you want and be plugged into outlets. There is no regulation that I know of requiring additional isolation beyond that provided by the outlet and then the mcb/RCBO in the CU.
I'd be very happy to understand if that was not correct - so please hit the keys guys.

 

[Taylortwocities]

It is this sort of assertion that I do not understand

Built in appliances MUST have an isolation switch, and apparently even if you have the function switch and plug above worktop

AFAIK there is no must about it.
Dear @Oldshape please can you quote the regulation that says this must be provided.
I'm happy to bow down and grovel if you can find one. Best regards.

 

[Oldshape]

Hi Oldshape,
Just on the free standing appliances that come with plugs, i.e. your washer, dryer and fridge planned for the Utility Room. I know of no regulation that says these can't be put where you want and be plugged into outlets. There is no regulation that I know of requiring additional isolation beyond that provided by the outlet and then the mcb/RCBO in the CU.
I'd be very happy to understand if that was not correct - so please hit the keys guys.

I didn't say there was a reg. on those items. I said in my case, all 4 appliances will be next to each other under a worktop held by batons. So all my plugs will be inaccessible without dragging the unit out. So I might as well put isol. switches above the tops. Or have the whole sockets above the top with a hole in it to feed flex through. Which of course will look crap.

 

[Oldshape]

It is this sort of assertion that I do not understand
AFAIK there is no must about it.
Dear @Oldshape please can you quote the regulation that says this must be provided.
I'm happy to bow down and grovel if you can find one. Best regards.

See post above. Or did you mean the apparently bit? Based on the fact that a function switch isn't labelled but an isol. can be purchased with a proper ID on it.

 

[HandySparks]

Not my usual sparky, but I had another one around to my present house to estimate a smoke alarm system. Over a brew he told me all these additional facts.

No. He told you his opinions and his interpretation of the regs.
This is domestic accommodation we're talking about with a main switch within a short walk. Not an industrial plant with numerous distribution boards spread over acres of site.

If the function of a switch or isolator is obvious from its location, there's no need to label.

Why on earth would you run a ring circuit to a single accessory?
Because it will be expanded to serve outside sheds etc.

So just run a radial circuit in bigger cable.

Eh? Why?
So that visitors (Including fireman, mo-in-law) to the house can clearly isolate.

If firemen want the power off, they're not going to be faffing about trying to decide which lighting circuit to isolate. They'll just want to see a big red switch labelled 'MAIN SWITCH', as required by the regs.

 

[Oldshape]

No. He told you his opinions and his interpretation of the regs.
This is domestic accommodation we're talking about with a main switch within a short walk. Not an industrial plant with numerous distribution boards spread over acres of site.

If the function of a switch or isolator is obvious from its location, there's no need to label.


So just run a radial circuit in bigger cable.


If firemen want the power off, they're not going to be faffing about trying to decide which lighting circuit to isolate. They'll just want to see a big red switch labelled 'MAIN SWITCH', as required by the regs.

Yes, it is his interpretation. And maybe because around here there are so many buy-to lets, holiday rentals and other short term rentals...the electricians are erring to the side of caution. What is obvious to you and me is not to some of the grockles we get here! We also know the council inspectors and how they work and what they like. He is always around too, as there are 7 properties being messed with, structurally. 4 of the 7 are getting structural and electrical work. These 4 properties were built by the council in 1970 and have been changed frequently by the council since then. And we know how they work, short cuts and bodges everywhere....so the inspectors are really keen.

Radial in bigger cable......But surely a ring is a better option? This could have 5 sockets on it in the end, using power tools and other expected kit in a garage / workshop.

Don't forget, in this house I am staring at blank walls and blank floors. There is presently no power to the building. I'm not sure yet where the main power will enter the property and thus location of the CU. The cabling that was in the building has been ripped or snipped. None of it was in the right places anyway.
So, I can make the circuits as safe as possible allowing for future expansion. Also allowing for maintainability in terms of isolation by having so many circuits downstairs for example. It's only a matter of more cable. My own labour is doing the chasing and cable runs. The cost of a bigger CU and more RCD's is lost in the noise to be honest.