The client is always right... after some advice.

[Yellowhammer]

Hi all,

I've only fairly recently made the jump to working for myself, coming from a past if commercial, industrial and occasional very high end residential. I find myself now in a different place picking up very typical domestic jobs.

Recently I've been doing a partial rewire on a house for a young couple. Adding some circuits, new CU, opening up lots of single sockets to doubles, kitchen remodel, lighting etc. at the point I'd say it's easily around 2/3 of the time and effort of a full rewire.

Clients asked for a breakdown of quote then decided to pick and choose what they did/didn't want (honestly, next time someone asks for this I fear I may say the price is the price for the work you requested, sorry, no).

Since then they've largely requested to have all the omitted items done, bit by bit. Not to mention initially refusing to drop ceilings, have me patch and fish cables everywhere... Then once I was done they dropped the ceilings.

Anyway, my actual question, beyond a slight rant around what I'm learning seems fairly typical behaviour in this market is this:

Spent a while talking through downlights for the bathroom, different layouts, sent photos of rooms with 2 or 3 and sent little drawings etc. Then get told to drop the downlights in the bathroom from the quote, they're not going to have them in there. Okay, fine.
Turned up to continue other works. Bathroom light is removed with the bare wires currently shoved in the loft, and there's a pack of grim LAP downlights, some wagos and a single wago box on the windowsill in the bathroom.
Given I'm about to fully test the place having done the CU, and cert it. Also given the bathroom is a special location, and I spent time essentially consulting on it... I feel a bit miffed to be honest. I haven't said anything (cheeky client even asked me for some earth sleeving?!).
I'm not really sure how I proceed. Just note the cert doesn't cover the lighting and be done with it? I have done a reasonable amount of work on the circuit elsewhere..
I have no idea on the IP rating of the fittings. I also assume he has no clue about zones etc. technically being a special location, he shouldn't be doing this work?..

How would everyone else proceed? I've been pretty good to them in my eyes so far, done a lot of the work for a lot less than I should "because I was there anyway" (another lesson learnt, all those little bits done add up to a day not being paid very much..) I really should have charged atleast £500 more than I have, so it feels like a bit of a Micheal take really.

Am I overly dramatic, is the normal? Insight either way appreciated.

 

[littlespark]

Test it as you leave it, but keep a note for yourself about the bathroom lights. (Photo would do)….. and anything else.

If customer makes a mess of it afterwards, then they might ask you back to repair….then charge them a generous hourly rate.



LAP fittings are generally OK. IP and fire rated… but I know… that’s not the point.

Customers change their mind… but best you can do is stick to the quote, document all changes and charge for extras.

What they do after you’ve finished is not your problem.

 

[westward10]

The lighting circuit is incomplete so disconnect and exclude it and make a note as to why on the certification. Make it clear you have done this and it is up to them to reinstate it or call you back at further expense to test and certify it. Add a £5 cost for the sleeving.

 

[littlespark]

Sorry... i misread.

If customer has undone what you have done, its time to have a word.
Tell him you cant test it if its been "tampered" with, basically. They might actually understand.... and stop messing until youre finished

 

[brianmoooore]

Welcome to the world of dealing with the general public. Nothing in your post surprises me in the slightest.

 

[PS Electrics]

How would everyone else proceed? I've been pretty good to them in my eyes so far, done a lot of the work for a lot less than I should "because I was there anyway" (another lesson learnt, all those little bits done add up to a day not being paid very much..) I really should have charged atleast £500 more than I have, so it feels like a bit of a Micheal take really.

Am I overly dramatic, is the normal? Insight either way appreciated.

This is riding on the coat tails of your Part P notification and is not acceptable.

Personally I would require a written waiver from the client regarding the bathroom and a note made on the certificate to the same.

No problem if the client wants to save money but they cannot also have the benefits of you taking responsibility.

 

[mainline]

Hi all,

I've only fairly recently made the jump to working for myself, coming from a past if commercial, industrial and occasional very high end residential. I find myself now in a different place picking up very typical domestic jobs.

Recently I've been doing a partial rewire on a house for a young couple. Adding some circuits, new CU, opening up lots of single sockets to doubles, kitchen remodel, lighting etc. at the point I'd say it's easily around 2/3 of the time and effort of a full rewire.

Clients asked for a breakdown of quote then decided to pick and choose what they did/didn't want (honestly, next time someone asks for this I fear I may say the price is the price for the work you requested, sorry, no).

Since then they've largely requested to have all the omitted items done, bit by bit. Not to mention initially refusing to drop ceilings, have me patch and fish cables everywhere... Then once I was done they dropped the ceilings.

Anyway, my actual question, beyond a slight rant around what I'm learning seems fairly typical behaviour in this market is this:

Spent a while talking through downlights for the bathroom, different layouts, sent photos of rooms with 2 or 3 and sent little drawings etc. Then get told to drop the downlights in the bathroom from the quote, they're not going to have them in there. Okay, fine.
Turned up to continue other works. Bathroom light is removed with the bare wires currently shoved in the loft, and there's a pack of grim LAP downlights, some wagos and a single wago box on the windowsill in the bathroom.
Given I'm about to fully test the place having done the CU, and cert it. Also given the bathroom is a special location, and I spent time essentially consulting on it... I feel a bit miffed to be honest. I haven't said anything (cheeky client even asked me for some earth sleeving?!).
I'm not really sure how I proceed. Just note the cert doesn't cover the lighting and be done with it? I have done a reasonable amount of work on the circuit elsewhere..
I have no idea on the IP rating of the fittings. I also assume he has no clue about zones etc. technically being a special location, he shouldn't be doing this work?..

How would everyone else proceed? I've been pretty good to them in my eyes so far, done a lot of the work for a lot less than I should "because I was there anyway" (another lesson learnt, all those little bits done add up to a day not being paid very much..) I really should have charged atleast £500 more than I have, so it feels like a bit of a Micheal take really.

Am I overly dramatic, is the normal? Insight either way appreciated.

Like already said, it's not a surprise to have a customer do a bit

I once did a Cu change but did not finish as had to wait for a few more rcbos. I got a txt from the client the following day to say that he went to screwfix or somewhere and had finished the Cu.

There was a load of other work to do there, but i preferred to count my losses and not do any other work for them.

 

[Yellowhammer]

Thanks for the replies all, and apologies if it's not totally clear. Find it tricky to type these things out coherently on a phone!

The main issues I have are it's very cheeky to use me to talk through the layout etc. to then not employ me to do it, I'm not a free consultant. Aware it is what it is, no obligation and in circumstances such as quoting the job this wouldn't be outrageous, but this is different I think!

I am/was concerned about the certification, though I think the client is ignorant of it to be honest more than anything malicious. As with many people I don't think they have any comprehension of the liability taken on when signing these things. I will 100% be explicitly detailing the scope of work covered by the certificate, and exclusions. I will also be talking the client through this..

I appreciate people need to save a few quid, and the costs mount up.. but 2-3 downlights in the grand scheme of the scope of work here is not really going to alter much.

Re. The LAP fittings, I've seen a mixed bunch. The size of the box here however has made me more than a bit concerned they're the £3.50 IP20 things you can get. Coupled with some comments about how very premium the Collingwoods I was fitting in the kitchen were..

I think people just are totally ignorant sometimes (and I can, to an extent understand why) of the liability you take, importance of testing, the experience they're paying for and things like the fact if one of those Collingwood downlights fails in the next 12 months, I'll go back over and fit a new one for them for free!

All in all they're really nice people to be honest, and we get along just fine. It has further reinforced my longer term goal of breaking into commercial and industrial works though!

 

[mainline]

Thanks for the replies all, and apologies if it's not totally clear. Find it tricky to type these things out coherently on a phone!

The main issues I have are it's very cheeky to use me to talk through the layout etc. to then not employ me to do it, I'm not a free consultant. Aware it is what it is, no obligation and in circumstances such as quoting the job this wouldn't be outrageous, but this is different I think!

I am/was concerned about the certification, though I think the client is ignorant of it to be honest more than anything malicious. As with many people I don't think they have any comprehension of the liability taken on when signing these things. I will 100% be explicitly detailing the scope of work covered by the certificate, and exclusions. I will also be talking the client through this..

I appreciate people need to save a few quid, and the costs mount up.. but 2-3 downlights in the grand scheme of the scope of work here is not really going to alter much.

Re. The LAP fittings, I've seen a mixed bunch. The size of the box here however has made me more than a bit concerned they're the £3.50 IP20 things you can get. Coupled with some comments about how very premium the Collingwoods I was fitting in the kitchen were..

I think people just are totally ignorant sometimes (and I can, to an extent understand why) of the liability you take, importance of testing, the experience they're paying for and things like the fact if one of those Collingwood downlights fails in the next 12 months, I'll go back over and fit a new one for them for free!

All in all they're really nice people to be honest, and we get along just fine. It has further reinforced my longer term goal of breaking into commercial and industrial works though!

Problems can arise when you get on too well then they think he won’t mind me doing a bit.