The Green Deal Again.

Earthstore · Dec 14, 2011

I have just been reading a little on this Green Deal, and I am not sure if we are all missing something here.
Rumors are being bounced around that to qualify for the Green Deal, houses will have to have reached band C requirement, I think I have grasped that bit, however, is this not just a complicated type of loan, that if you can prove any improvements will pay for themselves then there may be funding available?
So, what if you do not want the funding from this very complex, pretend to be green, save the world, politically correct, will turn into another shambles anyway loan. (pessimistic I know)

Is it not possible that if you just want to fund it yourself, as has been happening, you would not be part of this Green Deal anyway.

Your thoughts?

Earthstore Energy

CES Heating · Dec 14, 2011

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. For the consumer it will create problems in selling homes as the new buyer will become liable for the existing loan, the price of the improvements will be overpriced by large organisations and creates the opportunity for mis-selling that they love to do (going by past schemes). For any would be installers there will another raft of legislation, certification and training "hoops" to jump through before you will be considered "worthy" of installing under this farce. This Green deal is only a deal for the companies behind it and is probably as far away from the green issue as someone could make it.
I would consider installing any green measures yourself or use your local trusted companies instead of getting ripped off by the big 6 and their bedmates.

Somecamel · Dec 14, 2011

Band C to get funding for the green deal? Sure your not getting this mixed up for the EPC of C for FITs come April?

TedM · Dec 14, 2011

The Green Deal is not linked to the current standard of your house. But the catch is you can only get funding that will be paid for in the savings that are made on your energy bills (the so-called 'Golden Rule'). If the costs of improvements are higher than the savings then you are not eligible for the GD.

And yes - it will all be controlled by accredited this, that and the other.

SRE · Dec 14, 2011

Ok, I failed my maths O level (yes I am that old

) but let's say you need to upgrade your central heating boiler to an A rated one and install controls it's going to cost 3k. It will save you potentially £250 a year so you pay your 3k back by paying £250/pa ( I believe the repayment has to be slightly less than the actual saving) so in year 2 you only owe £2750 BUT interest will be added at somewhere between 6 -7% pa - (doesn't that = £180 if it's 6% on a 3k loan??)

Now on a loan that size normally you're more than likely going to pay it off in 2 or 3 years at the most and your loan will be decreasing at a fairly rapid rate but at £250 a year - surely the interest paid by the time it's eventually paid for will be colossal and you'll nearly be ready for a new boiler anyway so what exactly have you gained as a householder other than a feel good factor for saving co2 .....

Am I missing something???

gadgetfadget · Dec 14, 2011

I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole! It's another big con!

TedM · Dec 14, 2011

If you have time have a read of this - http://www.e3g.org/images/uploads/E3G_Financing_the_Green_Deal_May_2011.pdf

TedM · Dec 14, 2011

DECCs Green Deal team are running a webchat tomorrow (Thursday at 12pm) - Green Deal Consultation webchat - Department of Energy and Climate Change

CES Heating · Dec 14, 2011

SRE said:
Ok, I failed my maths O level (yes I am that old ) but let's say you need to upgrade your central heating boiler to an A rated one and install controls it's going to cost 3k. It will save you potentially £250 a year so you pay your 3k back by paying £250/pa ( I believe the repayment has to be slightly less than the actual saving) so in year 2 you only owe £2750 BUT interest will be added at somewhere between 6 -7% pa - (doesn't that = £180 if it's 6% on a 3k loan??)

Now on a loan that size normally you're more than likely going to pay it off in 2 or 3 years at the most and your loan will be decreasing at a fairly rapid rate but at £250 a year - surely the interest paid by the time it's eventually paid for will be colossal and you'll nearly be ready for a new boiler anyway so what exactly have you gained as a householder other than a feel good factor for saving co2 .....

Am I missing something???

Nope, its a big scam orchestrated by energy firms flying under the Green flag... As a business I would avoid at all costs cos there's only gonna be one winner and it ain't called Joe Public.

SRE · Dec 14, 2011

I've only read the exec sumary but it looks as though it's saying that unles the Green Investment bank kick starts it with it's super credit rating that provides extra low interest loans then it's not going to be viable. I thought the GIB was struggling to get anywhere near the cash it needed for it to get going and in phase 2 it suggests rolling up the loans and selling them on to private finance - isn't that why we're up the spout economically now???

So just as the penny starts to drop that you can't spend money you haven't got the goevernment comes out with a brilliant idea to improve the efficiency of your house by taking out a loan that you don't need to be personally responsible for and will cost ridiculous amounts in compound interest.

Has the world gone mad?

moggy1968 · Dec 14, 2011

yup!!!

SRE · Dec 15, 2011

TedM said:
DECCs Green Deal team are running a webchat tomorrow (Thursday at 12pm) - Green Deal Consultation webchat - Department of Energy and Climate Change

Ok - I watched this until it finished. Loads of unanswered questions, but the key bit I was interested in - pv & Fit was that they couldn't be combined. It's an either/or situation and if Green Deal is applicable for pv you can't have the Fit.

I'd like someone who's been watching to tell me I'm wrong - but that's my interpretation of it!

Earthstore · Dec 15, 2011

Help me on this one please, "if Green Deal is applicable"? What does that mean?
Can you opt into the green deal, or can you choose to stay out of it?
If you stay out of it, is the EPC rating going to still be C to be entitled fot FIT?
Hell this shambles just gets worse.

SRE · Dec 15, 2011

I've been putting off reading all 238 pages of the consultation and then the risk assessments etc but I think that's going to be tomorrow's job so I can really get a handle on this.

This is the bit I'm referring to :

Nicola:
Hello to people who asked about the links between Green Deal, RHI and FITS. This is not simple and is something we are discussions with the heating and Migrogen industries on. Essentially, certain renewable heating technologies and some microgeneration meaures (include PV) are eligible for the GD. This means that a customer could choose either scheme, but in practice we might see more microgen measures being installed with GD finance over time as costs come down. We're very keen to ensure that properties benefitting from micorogen and renewable heat technologies also have the the fabric of the building addressed, so they are less leaky!

So when the price for pv drops so far that the subsidy isn't needed anymore Green Deal might be one option for householders (although the interest rate would put me off) but until that point my reading of it is that you either have Fit or Green Deal but you can't have both.