The new Landlords' EICR requirements. The law says that everything must now be to 18th Edition!

[Ian1981]

That’s exactly my way of thinking I conduct all my EICR’s to current regulations and any consumer units not meeting fire rated standards i deem as unsatisfactory although I know a lot of sparks class this as C3 I prefer to be more strict and don’t try to find ways around upgrading just upgrade the installation to satisfy current regs simple in my way of thinking. Although I do understand that financially it could be detrimental to the landlords but that’s what the rent payment is for maintenance and upkeep on your property.

You C2 every plastic CU based on it being plastic alone??
If so then disgraceful.
You must also insist a CU is changed if plastic before you do any alterations or additions to existing installations then, like installing an extra socket for instance?

 

[UNG]

That’s exactly my way of thinking I conduct all my EICR’s to current regulations and any consumer units not meeting fire rated standards i deem as unsatisfactory although I know a lot of sparks class this as C3 I prefer to be more strict and don’t try to find ways around upgrading just upgrade the installation to satisfy current regs simple in my way of thinking. Although I do understand that financially it could be detrimental to the landlords but that’s what the rent payment is for maintenance and upkeep on your property.

I think you really need to review some of your simple way of thinking as you clearly do not have a proper and thorough understanding of the regs, what would be wrong with a plastic CU contained within a fire rated enclosure, the "EG metal" in the regs has been misinterpreted by many including yourself to suggest anything other than a metal consumer unit does not meet the regs when other compliance options exist within the regs.
It is not your responsibility to set the rules or change the level of the bar, but it is your responsibility to apply the regs in an honest a far way to all interested parties.

I don't think have a clue about the financials if the rent is only for maintenance and upkeep can you tell me what covers the mortgage, the return on the landlords capital investment and also the letting and property management costs of the property

 

[Grant1987]

I think you really need to review some of your simple way of thinking as you clearly do not have a proper and thorough understanding of the regs, what would be wrong with a plastic CU contained within a fire rated enclosure, the "EG metal" in the regs has been misinterpreted by many including yourself to suggest anything other than a metal consumer unit does not meet the regs when other compliance options exist within the regs.
It is not your responsibility to set the rules or change the level of the bar, but it is your responsibility to apply the regs in an honest a far way to all interested parties.

I don't think have a clue about the financials if the rent is only for maintenance and upkeep can you tell me what covers the mortgage, the return on the landlords capital investment and also the letting and property management costs of the property

Oops, ruffled a few feathers by looks of it. Yea you’re right with the fire rated enclosure consumer unit. Id think that is perfectly fine being plastic if it’s enclosed within suitable enclosure. I must be one of the electricians that’s misinterpreted the regs then. I thought it had to be an enclosed chamber preventing the spread of potential fire. Same as I don’t like it when I see a metal consumer unit with open grommets being used rather than fire grommets. Or great big holes in either plastic or metal consumer. It is a difficult situation I understand but I thought that the idea is to bring electrical installations up to current standards. I’m not on here to argue just to learn more myself and give an opinion admittedly I can be wrong from time to time ?‍

 

[ChipFanDave]

May also be worth noting that you can get plastic CU that meet the requirments for non combustitble material.

 

[Grant1987]

I think you really need to review some of your simple way of thinking as you clearly do not have a proper and thorough understanding of the regs, what would be wrong with a plastic CU contained within a fire rated enclosure, the "EG metal" in the regs has been misinterpreted by many including yourself to suggest anything other than a metal consumer unit does not meet the regs when other compliance options exist within the regs.
It is not your responsibility to set the rules or change the level of the bar, but it is your responsibility to apply the regs in an honest a far way to all interested parties.

I don't think have a clue about the financials if the rent is only for maintenance and upkeep can you tell me what covers the mortgage, the return on the landlords capital investment and also the letting and property management costs of the property

Sorry I clearly upset you but to answer the 2nd part of your message with regards to maintenance and upkeep on properties with rental income. If it’s your property in question then surely the rent covers your mortgage? With the capital investment do you mean spending money to maintain the property when things go wrong? Think that also applies to your 3rd point of property management surely if it’s your property you have to expect to pay out £££ to keep it habitable and safe for tenants. Same applies to homeowners when things go wrong or need upgrading got to pay the costs.

 

[Grant1987]

A plastic consumer unit is a C3 if in sole means of escape, otherwise can have a note made or nothing at all. It does not trigger an unsatisfactory report. You best get yourself a best practice guide

Hia butt, yes I do think a best practice guide would be best for me because I don’t pretend to know it all I just take the cautious approach and maybe I exaggerated when I said I fail all plastic consumers that was me being harsh and annoyed when I see so many ppl looking for rules and regs to avoid updating/upgrading electrical installs. As for being disgraceful which I think you may have said (maybe not you) I find it disgraceful when I see the amounts charged by electricians for couple hours work.

 

[ChipFanDave]

How much do you charge then ?

 

[Grant1987]

How much do you charge then ?

That’s irrelevant I’ve been made out to be disgraceful for recommending consumer unit change when I don’t charge no where near the amount that is charged by most sparks £350 plus vat. Actually I’ll tell you I will change a standard consumer for £200 labour but before I upgrade if any faults Or unsatisfactory results arise after change that will be bit extra what about you?
[automerge]1593647567[/automerge]

How much do you charge then ?

I suppose it depends on what part of U.K you’re based at. You work in London do you?

 

[ChipFanDave]

It's not irrelevant if you're going to slag off "the amounts charged by electricians for couple hours work". However you can value yourself as low or highly as you like.

I work across a large parts of Midlands, Wales and South West England but rarely the SE or London.

 

[Grant1987]

It's not irrelevant if you're going to slag off "the amounts charged by electricians for couple hours work". However you can value yourself as low or highly as you like.

I work across a large parts of Midlands, Wales and South West England but rarely the SE or London.

Ah right well I get “slagged off” for recommending consumer unit upgrades and it seems like you took it personally when I said it’s disgraceful for amount some sparks charge for couple hours work. Well next time you’re in South Wales (valleys) let me know and we can have a tidy chat over a pint hopefully ? ?

 

[UNG]

Sorry I clearly upset you but to answer the 2nd part of your message with regards to maintenance and upkeep on properties with rental income. If it’s your property in question then surely the rent covers your mortgage? With the capital investment do you mean spending money to maintain the property when things go wrong? Think that also applies to your 3rd point of property management surely if it’s your property you have to expect to pay out £££ to keep it habitable and safe for tenants. Same applies to homeowners when things go wrong or need upgrading got to pay the costs.

I am in no way upset but your attitude appears to be landlords are making a lot of money so you will happily relieve them of some of it for totally unnecessary work to upgrade their rental properties electrical installations every few years as the regs change or are amended so should a homeowner be expected to do the same.
If you look at it from a different angle the EICR you carry out is ultimately paid for by the tenant, if the installation using your methods needs updating to meet the latest regs or amendment every couple of years the tenant will ultimately pay for it with an increased rent
The capital investment is the buying (either outright or with a mortgage) and any refurbishment of the property prior to letting it out, the maintenance, certifications, insurances and letting agents costs are annual expenses. With the capital investment is normal for a landlord to want a return on that investment otherwise the money could have been left in the bank although it is difficult to make much return on deposited money at the moment
Having seen some landlords loose a lot of money because a tenants idea of habitable is something akin to a pig sty and the landlord then having to spend £000's refurbing before it can be let again at the market rent for the area it can take a good while before there is any return on the cash the landlord has invested.
To use any comparison to a homeowner and the maintenance of their personal property has no relevance in this conversation in my opinion as they are two totally different cost models

That’s irrelevant I’ve been made out to be disgraceful for recommending consumer unit change when I don’t charge no where near the amount that is charged by most sparks £350 plus vat. Actually I’ll tell you I will change a standard consumer for £200 labour but before I upgrade if any faults Or unsatisfactory results arise after change that will be bit extra what about you?

Is the fact you are cheaper than other sparks any justification for the change of a consumer unit on an EICR
So at £200 + materials you are not that much cheaper if at all when compared to £350 + vat all in.

Ah right well I get “slagged off” for recommending consumer unit upgrades and it seems like you took it personally when I said it’s disgraceful for amount some sparks charge for couple hours work. Well next time you’re in South Wales (valleys) let me know and we can have a tidy chat over a pint hopefully ? ?

Ahh another case of misinterpretation again, at what point were you "slagged off" isn't it amazing how some take constructive criticism of their methods or interpretations to heart

The problem is that electricians are expected to apply the standards uniformly, imagine the backlash from the rental sector if the electrical industry said only an installation compliant with the 18th edition was acceptable on an EICR for a rental property or any property for that matter it would make a lot of properties unrentable or unsaleable overnight and create a lot of negative publicity with electricians being tagged rip off merchants when the installation is still considered good for continued use

 

[ChipFanDave]

Ah right well I get “slagged off” for recommending consumer unit upgrades and it seems like you took it personally when I said it’s disgraceful for amount some sparks charge for couple hours work. Well next time you’re in South Wales (valleys) let me know and we can have a tidy chat over a pint hopefully ? ?

Down the Wyndham Arms maybe ?

 

[Grant1987]

It's not irrelevant if you're going to slag off "the amounts charged by electricians for couple hours work". However you can value yourself as low or highly as you like.

I work across a large parts of Midlands, Wales and South West England but rarely the SE or London.

Down the Wyndham Arms maybe ?

haha not too far from there actually next valley over ?

 

[UKPN]

If they ask you for a standard pir, then you are OK.

I suspect however they will ask you for a report in accordance with the Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector as this is what they must obtain.

In which case you should be inspecting to those standards.

In the past i have carried out inspections to various standards, the easiest mistake to make is to reference the wrong standard!

The rental regs say the wirng must meet the 18th. The 18th says any wiring to previous regs is ok. (unless its become dangerous) Therefore a water main earth of loop impedance around .3 ohms to the 14th edition is ok. All this talk of people being dragged through the courts is the stuff of fantasy. There has already been 1 amendment to the 18th, soon to be 2. One of which is to be foundation earthing. So these experts on here are telling us that if your flat 20 floors up built in 1999 is non compliant? Ludicrous.

 

[andyb]

The rental regs say the wirng must meet the 18th.

I don't think it says that UKPN, just that the property must have a valid EICR.
Not read the exact reg, just the various interpretations of it.