The point of being qualified?

[DoubleInsulated]

Hello all.

Been a sparky since I left school (which is rather a long time ago). 17th Edition, and currently not planning to bother with the 18th. You get to a point in life where hoop jumping becomes tiresome!

My point is this. I occasionally work for a local security company as a sub contractor (usually first fixing CCTV for him) and he FREQUENTLY installs his own electrical points using his totally untrained engineers.

Now this can be extra lighting, sockets, or altering existing installations. I can tell you now, it NEVER complies with regs.

I do not certify (mainly because I just don't do enough sparking these days). Therefore, I usually refuse to do his electrical work.

On the occasions I have done his electrical installations, it is on the provision that he gets the work certified by a third party at the end of the job. He usually then gets more money from the client for this testing..... then NEVER does it.
This might be private work, but it's frequently for the local council.

I try to cover myself by highlighting this work must be certified on my invoices (it's usually only alterations within a room or similar), and also email him and relevant members of his company, reminding them they must certify. But they don't.

I now will not work for him.

My point is, this man, and his (massively untrained) staff frequently break installation regulations and get away with it.
I have known him install fire alarm systems in public buildings that are poorly designed, untested and do not comply in the slightest.

Who cares? Nobody ever pulls him up on it. Unless he is part of a testing body... who is ever going to challenge him?

Yes, if a fire happens or God forbid, someone is injured or killed, he may get caught, but it's a slim 'if'.

Frustrates me. Who can you tell? Who cares?
I anonymously emailed the local building inspector last year regarding a poor fire alarm installation and they did zip.

It's wrong on all levels. Only those willing to pay to be inspected, then get pulled up for poor practices.

I would be interested to know your opinions

 

[Pete999]

Hello all.

Been a sparky since I left school (which is rather a long time ago). 17th Edition, and currently not planning to bother with the 18th. You get to a point in life where hoop jumping becomes tiresome!

My point is this. I occasionally work for a local security company as a sub contractor (usually first fixing CCTV for him) and he FREQUENTLY installs his own electrical points using his totally untrained engineers.

Now this can be extra lighting, sockets, or altering existing installations. I can tell you now, it NEVER complies with regs.

I do not certify (mainly because I just don't do enough sparking these days). Therefore, I usually refuse to do his electrical work.

On the occasions I have done his electrical installations, it is on the provision that he gets the work certified by a third party at the end of the job. He usually then gets more money from the client for this testing..... then NEVER does it.
This might be private work, but it's frequently for the local council.

I try to cover myself by highlighting this work must be certified on my invoices (it's usually only alterations within a room or similar), and also email him and relevant members of his company, reminding them they must certify. But they don't.

I now will not work for him.

My point is, this man, and his (massively untrained) staff frequently break installation regulations and get away with it.
I have known him install fire alarm systems in public buildings that are poorly designed, untested and do not comply in the slightest.

Who cares? Nobody ever pulls him up on it. Unless he is part of a testing body... who is ever going to challenge him?

Yes, if a fire happens or God forbid, someone is injured or killed, he may get caught, but it's a slim 'if'.

Frustrates me. Who can you tell? Who cares?
I anonymously emailed the local building inspector last year regarding a poor fire alarm installation and they did zip.

It's wrong on all levels. Only those willing to pay to be inspected, then get pulled up for poor practices.

I would be interested to know your opinions

Depends what you mean by qualified, a 1 day regulations course does not constitute qualification in my opinion.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The only person/company that will do anything about it would be those that understand the risk and who are liable or stand to loose money due to an incident, this works out to be the insurance company, the owners and unfortunately the local authority would not understand the risk involved, insurance companies have specialist risk analysis agents that inspect these type of things, but do rely on advice from others, we then get back to who is competent to advise, an independent or the installer, vicious circle.

 

[DoubleInsulated]

I agree entirely. A one day course means zip.

If you are talking about me, then I did my original 3/4 years C&G 16th and then upgraded to the 17th.
Done every required course since then.

Did my original 2381 testing etc. I re-did my testing and inspection a few years back (2394 and 2395) because I was getting rusty.

Literally the only one I have not done to date is the 18th.

Just seems a mad system to me. There should be a body you can report rogue installers to.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Trading Standards, but they only investigate if a number of complaints are received.

 

[DoubleInsulated]

I could go out tomorrow, buy everything I need from B&Q, and pretty much rewire a house.
Nobody would check it, nobody is going to know if it's been done to regulation.

Come the time to sell the house, you just declare ignorance, and get the wiring tested by a sparky.
He slates it, that goes on a report and they buy it anyway (or worst case, you have to pay him to fix a few bits).

Systems seems a bit broken in this respect

 

[Mike Johnson]

Its never been correct to become broken. ?

 

[DoubleInsulated]

In my meaningless opinion.... you should have to show qualifications to be allowed to purchased anything but light fittings.
But that ain't going to happen!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

It's not just in the electrical industry this happens, it happens in many other jobs. Society is too large to completely regulate. The main thing is for you personally not to become disheartened by it. You have to stick to doing a good job, not because of any rules or regulations, just because you know you are leaving it safe for the customer. You will feel good about yourself for doing this as you get older.

You personally cannot stop the rogue traders, so it's pointless getting too cross about it. You did the right thing by not working for him any more. I would go and do the 18th if I was you and not let things slip.

We could all go and do something dodgy and probably not get caught, but we generally don't because most of us have morals and realise that someone somewhere along the line is more likely to get hurt if we choose to be dodgy.

 

[LukeD]

Same with mechanics etc . The level of control in this country is pathetic

 

[Dustydazzler]

Dodgy Dave and his DIY fuse box changes and Roger the Rogue builders house Re-wires , keep me in work and busy 4-5 days per week putting their SH!T work right

Infact I would have hardly any work if it wasn't for people regularly doing SH!T wiring

So I DO NOT want the SH!T work to stop , in fact the more SH!T work that goes on the busier I get

So to all the dodgy builders and rough arse sparks out there PLEASE keep throwing in rubbish wiring so I can keep paying my mortgage

 

[Mike Johnson]

I advise everyone to read the "Peter Principle" at least once, if explains everything about incompetence in trades people and those supposedly in charge.

 

[DoubleInsulated]

That fire alarm I reported to the building inspector.... big commercial building (garden centre). He did the most HORRIFIC install I have ever seen.

No design, no testing, huge voids in the sounder coverage, appalling installation practices... but it took 7 months for him to realise that when you did trigger the fire alarm....

.....Nothing happened. No sounders or beacons had been connected.

Took him nearly 2 weeks and 5 men to try and sort it out (and it's still not right). I walked away.

Trouble is, he would immediately point the finger at you if he ever got caught.

Anyway.... old news. Move on.

 

[GBDamo]

My take,

It's similar to the industrial action of the 70's leading to the gutting of the UKs heavy industry.

Knowledgeable people who thought themselves indispensable make life ever more difficult, tying people up in regulation and specification, and become intransigent and belligerent.

Many public bodies have pensioned off these individuals and replaced them with more pliant graduates who are prepared to be more "pragmatic".

Also, where the majority of work was done in house, most is now contracted out.

The problem is now is these green graduates are largely clueless and easily flanneled by smooth talking contractors.

Hence we now get all manner of rubbish installed in public buildings that use to be the gold standard.

Unfortunately, with the advent of RCDs, the shiteness of these jobs is highly unlikely to raise concerns as very few people are electrocuted.

 

[OnlQQker]