The use of plastic wall plugs for the 18th....

[Spoon]

I was just reading an interesting post about the 18th when the above was mentioned. there seems some debate about this. I initially thought that the idea of prohibiting the use of them was stupid, but I'm not sure now.

http://www.swaonline.co.uk/files/ww/Install Protect _ ComplyFull Document.pdf

These walldog screws look like they could strip the hole easily in some cases.

 

[netblindpaul]

Just out of curiosity, donother trades such as ceiling fittiers, air con installers have to comply too as they both install things that are liable to fall down should the fixing fail in a fire?

Yes they must also comply when installing their wiring, and the guidance will suggest that this is one of those regulations that will, be retrospective.

 

[Dillb]

Yes they must also comply when installing their wiring, and the guidance will suggest that this is one of those regulations that will, be retrospective.

Sorry should of been a bit more specific, in that they must use fixings that wont allow ceilings and air con pipes and units to fall?

 

[netblindpaul]

It's not ceilings and Air-Con pipework that collapsed and entangled a in a fire fighters resulting in him dying entangled in wiring outside the door of a flat which was on fire.
His body was found with melted plastic on his gloves, so can you imagine what went through that poor mans mind as he lay there dying when he went in to save peoples lives?
He ran out of air so suffocated as well as the "injury" due to the fire.
A horrendous scenario that must never be allowed to happen again.
However, do not let the scare mongers start publishing things that are not in accordance with official guidance.
The IET are not allowed to provide guidance on the requirements of BS 7671 it is prohibited by BS 0.

 

[Dillb]

I agree, but my point is that there are other people work that could also lead to unecessary deaths im a similar fashion, yet as usual its a case of waiting for it too happen before trying to prevent it happening again.

 

[suffolkspark]

Firefighters now do have wirecutters attached to the BA sets and entanglement training given here in suffolk, so they did alter stuff that end aswell.... nice cutters too i left a couple of years ago now though but ended up cutting through the cord that attached them to the set a few times

 

[suffolkspark]

A question following on from this then.... Noticed last time this came up some people were C2ing pvc conduit etc in escape routes..... So what would we code steel conduit in an escape route..... Or anywhere now.... Thats fixed with plastic plugs?

 

[Wilko]

And to that point - do we start to disassemble a metal fixing to see if there's a plastic plug behind it?

 

[ipf]

Just another point, where do we stand with cleats for swa, whether plastic plugs or not?

 

[Spoon]

Just another point, where do we stand with cleats for swa, whether plastic plugs or not?

If the cleats are plastic then it looks like they will fail in a fire.

 

[suffolkspark]

How do we contact the iet directly with questions like this as the info from nic napit etc always seem inconclusive

 

[Briggs69]

What a load of tosh.banning plastic raw plugs.get a grip.the rest of the building will have hundreds of them for plumbing,joinery etc so what diffrence will it make.its just getting to the point of stupid now.

 

[Spoon]

What a load of tosh.banning plastic raw plugs.get a grip.the rest of the building will have hundreds of them for plumbing,joinery etc so what diffrence will it make.its just getting to the point of stupid now.

I think the point of this is to stop firefighters getting "entangled" in cables. They are less likely to get entangled in copper/plastic piping & timber.

 

[Midwest]

I remember either reading, watching a video or one of those Web in Air things from NICEIC/Elecsa, whereby the question of the use of plastic rawplugs in such situations, was raised.

In essence, the response was that the surrounding building material, brick or concrete etc would prevent the failure of the plastic fixing. This was around the time of the introduction of A3, about the same time as the IET report; so there's some confusion or disagreement there. However, as this report was published in 2015, surely there most be some more up to date guidance on this, as the 18th has expanded on this matter.

Could not a member ask their schemes technical for guidance. I would, but as I've no longer in a scheme, so can't

 

[pirate]

I'm trying to get to grips here...
If you install cables over an escape route/doorway in such a fashion that they could fall and impede access in the eveny of fire, then the installation should be designed to prevent this happening. Plastic conduit won't work, regardless of how it is fastened to the wall/ceiling, unless the conduit is purely for aesthetic purposes and the cables are bundled and affixed to the structure with non-inflammable cable ties or similar, which are attached to non-inflammable bases with metal screws into the wall/ceiling...this would be a lot of work.
If the cables are above ceiling height, the same applies, but on tray, suitable affixed with non-inflammable fasteners, and located with, say, stainless steel cable ties, would that not be sufficient?
Seems to me, it is a matter of two factors, namely the method of fixing the cables together/alongside each other under/over a tray/ceiling, and then the method of affixing whatever tray/enclosure is used, to the fabric of the building.
Thus, avoid plastic anywhere over doorways/escape routes, meaning no plastic containment/cable ties/rawlplugs at all.
If that's the way forward, then wall-dogs or similar screws should be used to fasten to solid walls etc and if you go that route it's hardly worth reverting to plastic wall plugs where you can elsewhere, as that's just using 2 methods instead of one, cost aside...but the self-drilling metal screws are hardly expensive in the overall context.

 

[Strima]

Looks like resin anchors are the way ahead then.