ELECSA Certification Scheme Thought i would share what elecsa said

[Robinson]

After quite few threads ive seen here on whether care-homes is Commercial or Domestic and notifiable or not, i spoke with Elecsa
and they advised that work im doing in a care-home WOULD BE notifiable....Reason being that the requirements of Part P states
on page 5, The example of Appication: A dwelling and business that have common supply....The reasoning being the people/residents are dwelling
although it is a business....Works that come under the Part P requirements, on any of the circuits effecting the ones dwelling there from
the common supply should be notified as normal...

Thought was quite interesting and logical response from them.....

have question though

Im replacing a fuse board at this site......going for RCBO's as they cant have multiple circuits going down if fault, but was wondering.
Would i be required to give RCD/RCBO protection to circuits only used by staff, or even the lighting in certain areas...as at present there is no RCD protection at all just very Old Mcb's . (With Damaged board hence replacement).

BTW. Been awhile since logged on so my apologises for not sharing and being involved for A while.

 

[Guitarist]

Last time I asked Elecsa this question, I was told that I would have to decide whether it was commercial or domestic. The general feeling I got though, was that as it was a business, it would fall under commercial.
Just shows how open to interpretation these things are.

 

[Robinson]

LOL. Yeah thats what someone else i know was told ....Seems like it depends on who pics up the phone and what they interpret it like...

 

[Octopus]

A care home is run as a business, so I would regard it as a commercial enterprise and thus outside the scope of part p so no notification BUT the regs apply.

EDIT: Elecsa should hang their heads in shame. A care home is not a private residence.

 

[Jay Sparks]

A care home is run as a business, so I would regard it as a commercial enterprise and thus outside the scope of part p so no notification BUT the regs apply.

I agree with this. I do alot of work for a care home and I have been told, or Ive read somewhere, that as each room doesnt have its own metre & cu, then its not classed as a dwelling.

 

[ste77]

elecsa would say that...more money into their coffers. its a commercial business just like a hotel, the occupants pay for their rooms.

 

[Robinson]

elecsa would say that...more money into their coffers. its a commercial business just like a hotel, the occupants pay for their rooms.

yes i did get the sense it was like this when speaking to them, as friendly and quick to respond as they were...i kinda had few $$$ alarm bells

 

[snowhead]

If a Care home / Nursing Home is Domestic then Hotels and Boarding houses would have to be as well.

It's the self contained part that would determine it.

A self contained Managers flat above a shop would be Domestic for Electrical work as it's classed as Domestic for Gas work providing it has it's own Gas meter.

 

[Robinson]

If a Care home / Nursing Home is Domestic then Hotels and Boarding houses would have to be as well.

It's the self contained part that would determine it.

A self contained Managers flat above a shop would be Domestic for Electrical work as it's classed as Domestic for Gas work providing it has it's own Gas meter.

I kinda agree but where in the PART P doc can we find the self contained bit to use to reason upon this.
I mean the term Dwelling. is as a :nouna[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]building[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]or[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]place[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]of[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]shelter[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]to[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]live[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]in;[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]place[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]of[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]residence;[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]abode;[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]home.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So the application of which i was advised to use is in essence correct. These people live there its their Home (Al be it Rented), they each have own toilet/shower....and their flat/home/dwelling is a common supply with the rest of the business in the property....That is exactly as it states in The PART P Doc.....[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dont get me wrong i think what ive been told is hog wash, but what to do, it has confused me a bit....still as mentioned already all interpretable. as we can clearly see. [/FONT]

 

[Guest55]

i'd consider a care home to be classed as residential.
from a council licencing viewpoint it would be considered commercial as its ran as a business and charges money for use of the property.
but it differs from a hotel as the occupants stay long term and can be infirm , unwell , and are generally more vulnrable.

with this in mind i'd consider large parts of the building electrically domestic , and would keep that in mind when carrying out an EICR , but that is only my personal opinion , nothing official.

 

[Robinson]

i'd consider a care home to be classed as residential.
from a council licencing viewpoint it would be considered commercial as its ran as a business and charges money for use of the property.
but it differs from a hotel as the occupants stay long term and can be infirm , unwell , and are generally more vulnrable.

with this in mind i'd consider large parts of the building electrically domestic , and would keep that in mind when carrying out an EICR , but that is only my personal opinion , nothing official.

Yes that is pretty much how bloke at Elecsa said it. although adding the "Notify us as normal for works carried out in the Residential side of it."

 

[CTID]

I would say commercial, however it could also be size dependant. I gave been to some care homes, 6-8 bedrooms, single phase, more like a list big house. My biggest client was 110 bedrooms, three phase, separate dementia, passenger lifts, door access systems etc. Hardly what I would call domestic, especially as that would mean a Electrical Trainee could go and undertake full scope of works there!

 

[snowhead]

i'd consider a care home to be classed as residential.
from a council licencing viewpoint it would be considered commercial as its ran as a business and charges money for use of the property.
but it differs from a hotel as the occupants stay long term and can be infirm , unwell , and are generally more vulnrable.

with this in mind i'd consider large parts of the building electrically domestic , and would keep that in mind when carrying out an EICR , but that is only my personal opinion , nothing official.

It's such a grey area you can pick out whatever you like and turn it either way.

Eg "but it differs from a hotel as the occupants stay long term and can be infirm , unwell , and are generally more vulnrable.

Some don't stay very long at all in Care Homes

Some people live permanently in Hotels

Residential Care Homes and Nursing Homes are closer to a Hospital than any other functional building.

What about this one then, Care and Nursing homes pay Business Rates not Property Tax.

Residents in a Care or Nursing Home have no responsibility for the Electrical Installation.

 

[Guest55]

like i said , it was personal opinion only , others may differ.

 

[Geoffsd]

Further to the dictionary definition above -

Isn't the definition of a dwelling just somewhere people dwell?

They definitely do that in a residential home but not in business premises.