Tic & dnc help urgently needed!!

[SolarCity]

As far as I'm aware, the inverter specifications for G83 don't mention power output at all.

If the inverter is limited at 3.68kW then TIC and DNC are both 3.68kW.

 

[BruceB]

Oh dear this is getting confused. Ted, Gavin and Gary have it right and Earthstore you are incorrect saying in this case the TIC is the kWp of panels installed. If the inverter is 3.6kW output and the array's output is greater than that then the TIC and DNC are just the inverter output, ie 3.6kW.
Regards
Bruce

 

[BruceB]

And SolarCity understands!

ER G83/1 does mention 16A per phase often, but the tests for g83/1 compliance do not include a maximum current test. So with DNO agreement, an inverter can be operating under a g83/1 regime in terms of voltage and frequency cut-offs, but be operating at a current and power level beyond which G83/1 is normally applied, but where G59/2 is.

 

[SolarCity]

Like the 4000TL, SB3800 etc.

I've always considered the 16A limit to be a bit silly. If they had of made it 4kW instead they could have saved themselves a LOT of work.

 

[TedM]

TIC and DNC both refer to the maximum capacity of an 'eligible installation'. Panels on their own are not an 'installation'.

 

[BruceB]

Like the 4000TL, SB3800 etc.

I've always considered the 16A limit to be a bit silly. If they had of made it 4kW instead they could have saved themselves a LOT of work.

Although to confuse things the 4000TL also has G59/2 certification so you can choose to operate it in that regime, or indeed as WPD often ask for an amalgam of the 2 regimes! Standards are wonderful things - but there can be so many of them.

 

[Earthstore]

Sorry Bruce, I have just spoken to DECC, TIC "total installed capacity" is just that.
The amount of panels installed IE 16 x 245 = 3920 (3.92KW)

DNC is declared Net capacity so if you restrict the output by using a G83 approved inverter then your DNC would be 3.68KW.

This is how confusing this industry is, when even the well versed professionals on here ( who I respect immensely), are confused.

 

[BruceB]

Well, with respect, whoever you spoke to in DECC is wrong.
They would be right if the inverter was larger than the kWp of panels installed, but not in this case.
I can only point you at the definitions in the legislation.
If you do not have a link I can find one.
I do not feel at all confused. Legislation often has some ambiguity, but not to my mind on this point.

Regards
Bruce

 

[SolarCity]

To be fair, I think it is the DECC that have it wrong.

 

[Earthstore]

Sorry chaps, I am just trying to help, but DECC are adamant that this is so.
I have also been led to various PDF files to explain this legislation , however I could not find the exact information (only amendments).
So, by what you are all saying you could install 5 KWP of panels, on a 3.68 inverter and the TIC and DNC would be 3.68 therefore making you eligible for the >4KW FIT rate?

 

[Gavin A]

eta - ah, actually this was in response to an earlier post, not the one above.

 

[BruceB]

I think you mean making you eligible for the less than or equal to 4kW rate, then correct.

Working through the definitions, for example here:
http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...0100331172153_e_@@_fitlicencemodification.pdf
takes awhile, but can be instructive.

Regards
Bruce

 

[TedM]

This link should work:

http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/what we do/uk energy supply/energy mix/renewable energy/policy/fits/1_20100331172153_e_@@_fitlicencemodification.pdf

The definitions of TIC and DNC are on pages 3 and 9.

The other relevant one is "Eligible Installation" also on page 3.

Ask your contact at DECC to explain how an "installation" for TIC means panels only, and then "installation" means panels plus inverter when used for DNC.

You might also point out to them that, in a grid-tie system, panels without an inverter don't produce any watts at all - so the system would have a TIC of zero - by their definition.

 

[BruceB]

To return to AGSElectrical's original question. My recommendation is keep it simple, make TIC = DNC= 3.6 or 3.68 and give a consistent answer on the MCS certificate, G83 form, your schematic diagram and make sure your customer puts the same answer(s) on the FIT form. It is differences in the answers that will raise hares.

 

[Gavin A]

It is differences in the answers that will raise hares.

well I suppose it is March, and I'm feeling a wee bit mad...