Tightening locknuts with hammer and screwdriver-dog rough or not?

[littlespark]

Stretch the job out.

Disconnect and remove any other glands that are blocking using the proper wrench, then reconnect. Turns a half day job into 3 full.

I’m sure no one would batter an MI gland the same way.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Stretch the job out.

Disconnect and remove any other glands that are blocking using the proper wrench, then reconnect. Turns a half day job into 3 full.

I’m sure no one would batter an MI gland the same way.

I certainly wouldn't pummel an MI gland with a hammer and chisel , not unless you want to spend the next hour re-making it all off again

 

[nicebutdim]

Stretch the job out.

Disconnect and remove any other glands that are blocking using the proper wrench, then reconnect. Turns a half day job into 3 full.

I’m sure no one would batter an MI gland the same way.

That's the answer. Shut down half a building, then spend the rest of the year looking for new work in the few moments of respite between insurance claims.

 

[nicebutdim]

The problem seems to be that most on here are saying, because of space restraints they can't get a tool on the nut to tighten it. I can't think that any manufacturer would put a unit on the market that is so badly designed the knock outs are too close together to allow tightening of the locknuts with a tool.

Knockouts?

Usually the problem is too many outgoing single phase circuits and no space to use other parts of the board. Sometimes it's down to lack of foresight from a previous spark who felt their life would be easier if they kept all outgoing cables to the front.

When I've previously commented about lack of space to get a tool in, it wasn't a flippant comment. Thankfully this isn't an everyday occurrence for me, but in my couple of short years in the industry it's something I've faced on a number of occasions.

 

[Eric12]

These make it a bit easier to get purchase on a difficult lock nut. Found them useful last year when glanding Ryefeids

ERGO™ Central Nut Wide Opening Thin Jaw Adjustable Wrenches with Rubber Handle

{ "1": "ERGO\u2122 Central Nut Wide Opening Thin Jaw Adjustable Wrenches with Rubber Handle" }

www.bahco.com

 

[littlespark]

That's the answer. Shut down half a building, then spend the rest of the year looking for new work in the few moments of respite between insurance claims.

What insurance claims?

Maybe the one about working in a board with live circuits?
You would have the board shut down of course? …. wrestling a big cable and gland into its hole, swinging a big hammer around and all that. Whoops, slipped, bang!

That’s the crux of this thread though…. Saving time by using the wrong tools, and basically cutting corners… because, “ if you don’t do it, someone else will”

Now where have I heard that before?

 

[rewireIT]

What insurance claims?

Maybe the one about working in a board with live circuits?
You would have the board shut down of course? …. wrestling a big cable and gland into its hole, swinging a big hammer around and all that. Whoops, slipped, bang!

That’s the crux of this thread though…. Saving time by using the wrong tools, and basically cutting corners… because, “ if you don’t do it, someone else will”

Now where have I heard that before?

You've got to admit, removing several armoured glands just so you don't have to spend 30 seconds hitting a locknut with a hammer and chisel is a bit OTT. There's doing it properly but there's a phrase 'where reasonably practicable' that is used a lot and this is one of those times. Spending 3 days, 3 days of factory/unit/home downtime, and thousands of pounds, just to avoid saying you cut a corner on a forum, falls under reasonably practicable. It's not. So you shouldn't do it.

When you gland with a hammer and chisel literally nobody but people online cares. Someone on site will call you rough then you go on about your life because it makes no difference.

 

[westward10]

I believe it was said tongue in cheek although it was @littlespark so who knows

 

[littlespark]

I believe it was said tongue in cheek although it was @littlespark so who knows

And it’s the weekend…..

 

[Darkwood]

I'll play the devil's advocate, learnt it that way, always done it and crucially that contact point needs to be as tight as can be given in a fault it could be 1000+ amps, used every tool in the book and never been able to nip it up as tight as a thelmic planner and a old flat bladed screwdriver.

 

[pc1966]

Of course the "proper tool" for this is a ring slogging spanner. Limited risk of damage to the nut, and the satisfaction of tightening with a hammer.

Stop! Hammer time...

Of course would really need modified as @Mike Johnson suggested to be similar to the brake pipe spanners that have a slot that can fit over the typical cable inner.

 

[Eric12]

Of course the "proper tool" for this is a ring slogging spanner. Limited risk of damage to the nut, and the satisfaction of tightening with a hammer.

Stop! Hammer time...

Of course would really need modified as @Mike Johnson suggested to be similar to the brake pipe spanners that have a slot that can fit over the typical cable inner.

I tried this method before; did not end as well as expected tbh. Problem is that different manufacturers have different sized locknuts for their glands, So what might work for one wont for another !

 

[littlespark]

I tried this method before; did not end as well as expected tbh. Problem is that different manufacturers have different sized locknuts for their glands, So what might work for one wont for another !

Whereas an old screwdriver will take a hold on any sized locknut.


Seriously though, I’ve never tightened a nut this way, but loosened plenty off.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I tried this method before; did not end as well as expected tbh. Problem is that different manufacturers have different sized locknuts for their glands, So what might work for one wont for another !

That's why spanner are usually supplied in sets of different size's.

 

[DefyG]

Not condoning the hammer and screwdriver method, but I'm sure we've all had to improvise at sometime or other ?

 

[rewireIT]

A whole six pages........

 

[brianmoooore]

A whole six pages........

Exactly! Yes, dog rough, but sometimes necessary.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Falls into the same debate as house bashers using their 18v impact driver on consumer units

 

[Moley]

Next time I'm working on a gen tx I'll take a photo of the bottom of the marshalling kiosk. It's nearly always impossible to get a spanner in. On rare occasions you might get a water pump pliers on one but no chance with a spanner.

 

[DefyG]

There was a thread a few weeks back about an alternative use for a tool other than it was originally intended for. I'm sure they were all listed in that thread!

 

[loz2754]

Falls into the same debate as house bashers using their 18v impact driver on consumer units

Not really. One is really just stupidly stunningly dumb, the other is a last ditch method only to be used when all else has failed.

 

[Marvo]

You should try working on a marshalling kiosk on a large transformer. On some of them there's no wa to get a spanner of any kind in. The designers had no thoughts on maintenance :-(

I'm guilty of using a hammer and screwdriver. When you are working on a gland plate with 24+ glands in 4 rows of 6 and you need to remove one from one of the inner rows there's just no chance of getting in with anything else :-(

Yeah, sounds like some of the badly designed cabinets we also have to work with. Like you say when there's 25 or 30 glands in multiple rows rammed into a gland plate with maybe 10mm space between and they're large diameter SWA cables that can't be moved around to make some swinging room then you're often left with no other option but to use an impact type tool rather than a spanner or socket.

We keep stock of nuts between M20 and M60 that have a castle shaped outer rim which are ideal for tightening or loosening with a pin punch or a screwdriver if you're in a bind. They're often called 'locknuts' in the hardware catalogues and it's worth carrying a small selection in your kit for a rainy day.

 

[Moley]

I find a lot of that style nut on some of the Canadian equipment that we fit. Maybe they are big over there?

 

[nicebutdim]

I find a lot of that style nut on some of the Canadian equipment that we fit. Maybe they are big over there?

Hopefully not too big or there'll be no space to get a tool on them.

 

[Marvo]

I find a lot of that style nut on some of the Canadian equipment that we fit. Maybe they are big over there?

You see them quite often on Copex type flexible conduit fittings that are widely used in the USA and Canada for connecting commercial equipment to fused and unfused disconnect switches. They're designed to be tightened with a 'C-spanner' but they work very well as a slogging nut using an extra long pin punch.

 

[pirate]

Another useful idea from Canada! I'd like some for the fixings box, just in case...
Talking of Canada, anyone else using Robertson screws just to annoy the next guy?

 

[telectrix]

The multi tool before multi tools were invented.

love it. nice and succinct post. been doing it for years - beats bashing knuckles on a slipping pair of gland pliers.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Another useful idea from Canada! I'd like some for the fixings box, just in case...
Talking of Canada, anyone else using Robertson screws just to annoy the next guy?

these days many bit sets you buy from screwfix / toolstation now come with a square 2 and sometimes even a square 1 & 2

I actually prefer torx over when it comes to wood screws

 

[Mike Johnson]

If any of you have done any decking recently, the screws come with all sorts of different heads including torx type, but thankfully they usually supply a drive head in the box.

 

[nicebutdim]

Another useful idea from Canada! I'd like some for the fixings box, just in case...
Talking of Canada, anyone else using Robertson screws just to annoy the next guy?

We rarely use anything else over here, but I get real satisfaction from using them in GB for that very reason.

 

[telectrix]

Another useful idea from Canada! I'd like some for the fixings box, just in case...
Talking of Canada, anyone else using Robertson screws just to annoy the next guy?

done that a few times for that very reason.

 

[ronalsparks]

The quality of the nuts from the suppliers is so poor and thin the hammer and screwdriver is sometimes the only sure way of getting them anywhere near tight. It is old school and sounds rough but the key is continuity and security of the gland and as for it coming apart again how often does that happen and you don’t want it to come loose anyway.

 

[Smasher]

I had a job recently where myself and an apprentice had to gland and terminate a 50mm SWA cable in a panel. I put the locknut in a vice and filed V shaped notches in the 6 leading edges. The apprentice was curious as to what I was doing. As we installed it, I got my trusty old screwdriver out and hammered the locknut tight as my assistant held the gland with his stillies. On completion, he said that it was dog rough, but so difficult to tighten with gland nut pliers. I would be interested to now what others think.

Each to their own, but for me it’s right tool for the job, everytime. When you don’t have the right tool that is the problem/dilemma. And if you are slack with that, what else are you slack with?

 

[nicebutdim]

Each to their own, but for me it’s right tool for the job, everytime. When you don’t have the right tool that is the problem/dilemma. And if you are slack with that, what else are you slack with?

How do you use the right tool in circumstances in which there is no prospect of getting that tool near the luck nut?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

How do you use the right tool in circumstances in which there is no prospect of getting that tool near the luck nut?

Under such circumstances, the chisel is the right tool

 

[Mike Johnson]

I think the question to ask is "why can't you get the right tool near the locknut", is it because your drilled the holes too close together, or the enclosure is too small, or as I said in a previous post I can't believe that a manufacturer would put an enclosure on the market with knockouts without thinking this through, or is everyone going to blame a previous muppet.

 

[DPG]

This thread is as circular as the lock huts

Edit: autocorrect strikes again. Lock NUTS !

 

[Mike Johnson]

My locknuts have flats on them, so a bit like fort knox.

 

[telectrix]

my local housing association has flats, making a fortune from rent and leasehold charges. fleet of new Transits every 2 years. and you should see the bodged repairs. broken timber purlin repaired with a couple of coachbolts. no support. disabled ramp that nobody can use. ( this eventually was demolished following a water supplly leak they'd built it over.) almost on a par with the council taking 14 weeks to fill a pothole after it was reported dangerous and several cars damaged.

 

[loz2754]

My locknuts have flats on them, so a bit like fort knox.

You can buy a cream for that