Toilet facilities on the job

[oscar21]

Whats everyone's take on this, turned up today to start a re-wire and yet again there wasn't any toilet on the job so we ring the builder and he wasn't interested, we offered to pay for a portaloo if he gets it dropped off but he said tough, you either go home or go to a shop.

So obviously we packed everything up and left the job, we've now brought forward our next job and are starting it tomorrow so even if he relents and gets a toilet we can't do anything for 3 or 4 weeks and that's if we even want to go back.

I just don't get it, why would someone want to go to all the trouble of finding someone else, getting them to re-price it, waiting for them to have an available slot and still have the possibility that they won't start without a toilet anyway. Or they could just pay £28 per week and have toilet facilities on the job. Its madness.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I know it's an old thread, but the latest CDM&Welfare regulations apply to homeowners as well, where welfare facilities legally must be provided.

 

[littlespark]

Wee in a bucket? Now you’re just taking the ----…

 

[davesparks]

I know it's an old thread, but the latest CDM&Welfare regulations apply to homeowners as well, where welfare facilities legally must be provided.

Interesting, do you have any links to that legislation?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Welfare: Overview - HSE

An overview of who, what and where you must provide welfare facilities for construction workers.

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[nicebutdim]

Welfare: Overview - HSE

An overview of who, what and where you must provide welfare facilities for construction workers.

www.hse.gov.uk

That states obligations for contractors and commercial clients.

 

[Mike Johnson]

CDM Regulation now apply to householders not just contractors and commercial.

 

[Mike Johnson]

No idea why it posted twice, perhaps just to drive the point home?

 

[nicebutdim]

From the link you've provided it appears as though it applies to contractors and commercial clients organising work in a domestic premises. It may be the case that householders are now expected to conform to CDM regulations, but nowhere on the page is that made apparent.


Edit: The page linked below relates to domestic clients and doesn't appear to pass the responsibilities to those clients as you have suggested.

Construction - Construction (Design and Management) Regulations 20015 - What do I need to do? - Domestic clients: roles and responsibilities

The Health & Safety Executive's (HSE) information for clients on their legal responsibilities under Construction Design & Management (CDM) Regulations

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[Mike Johnson]

Welfare: Overview - HSE

An overview of who, what and where you must provide welfare facilities for construction workers.

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[nicebutdim]

Reading that page again, I can see an argument for the client taking responsibility if they choose not to appoint a contractor or other agent who would act as the designer, but this is not expressly stated. It would also be rare for a somestic client to not appoint someone to this role where fairly major works are undertaken and I'm not sure that a new kitchen or other small scale work falls under these regulations.

 

[nicebutdim]

Welfare: Overview - HSE

An overview of who, what and where you must provide welfare facilities for construction workers.

www.hse.gov.uk

It may be the case I'm being thick, but that's the link you posted previously and it pertains solely to commercial clients and contractors.

 

[davesparks]

Welfare: Overview - HSE

An overview of who, what and where you must provide welfare facilities for construction workers.

www.hse.gov.uk

That sets out requirements for commercial clients and contractors.

Householders are not, generally, commercial clients and so those rules do not apply to them.

There is separate guidance, linked above, for domestic customers explaining that the client responsibilities pass to the principal contractor on domestic work

 

[Mike Johnson]

Most householders have an office facility in the home and would therefore be classed as a commercial client for the purposes of the Regulations, especially if they are claiming tax benefits for using part of the home as an office.

Only if a Principal Contractor has been appointed by the Client would the requirement for the welfare facilities pass to them, if not the responsibility for the welfare facilities remains with the Client, commercial or domestic.

 

[nicebutdim]

Only if a Principal Contractor has been appointed by the Client, if so the requirement for the welfare facilities passes to them, if not the responsibility for the welfare facilities remains with the Client.

The regulations don't make this clear and any such inference is assumed.

I've posted the relevant link above

 

[nicebutdim]

A domestic client is any individual who has construction work carried out on their home, or the home of a family member, that is not done as part of any business. While CDM 2015 places client duties on commercial clients in full, such duties for domestic clients normally pass to:

• the contractor, if it is a single contractor project, who must take on the legal duties of the client in addition to their own as contractor. In practice, this should involve little more than what they normally do in managing health and safety risks
• the principal contractor, for projects with more than one contractor, who must take on the legal duties of the client in addition to their own as principal contractor. If the domestic client has not appointed a principal contractor, the client duties must be carried out by the contractor in control of the construction work

If a domestic client has appointed an architect (or other designer) on a project involving more than one contractor, they can ask them to manage the project and take on the client duties instead of the principal contractor. The designer then takes on the responsibilities of principal designer and must have a written agreement with the domestic client, confirming they have agreed (as principal designer) to take on the client duties as well as their own responsibilities.

Any designer in charge of coordinating and managing a project is assumed to be the principal designer. However, if they do not have a written agreement with the domestic client to confirm they are taking on the client duties, those duties automatically pass to the principal contractor.