Torque Talk

[Marvo]

Long time no see and I hope you're all doing well.

I see that torque screwdrivers have become the height of fashion in the UK over the last couple of years. I wondered what general practice has been adopted regarding their use.

Are electricians expected to;
Have a torque screwdriver on site at all times?
Check torque of all terminations in CU's / DB's they open or just any new terminations they make?
Check the torque of all terminations in any accessories they open?

Also;
Is acceptable to do torque testing live in a CU (assuming a VDE screwdriver)? Is a risk assessment required for live torque testing?
If torque testing is performed in a DB/CU do you just check screws for tightness or do you loosen off all terminations first then re-torque to the correct figure to eliminate overtightened connections as well as loose ones?

 

[Dustydazzler]

blimey

I have had both my vde torque drivers for well over 4-5 years and neither have been re-calibrated yet

 

[DPG]

blimey

I have had both my vde torque drivers for well over 4-5 years and neither have been re-calibrated yet

Just think of all those terminations that might be done up to precisely the wrong torque!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Just think of all those terminations that might be done up to precisely the wrong torque!

Good job I check with my manual screwdriver after torquing

 

[mainline]

“So, new circuit… you can’t use maybe an existing spare mcb?”

Single conductor from mcb to a multi join. ?

 

[Other_Tucker]

I've invented a torque wrist calibrator, a small box with 10 screws on it each one lights up at the labelled torque. We can then verify our own hand power settings every morning.

 

[Megawatt]

I'm sure you could borrow someones torque screwdriver and self calibrate your wrist against it

I don't carry a torque screwdriver on site either but I have a range of very accurate versions in our workshop that are about 15 years old and too expensive to carry around. I'm thinking about getting one of these new snazzy looking red and yellow plastic ones although I wouldn't use it very often with the type of work I do. I'm just interested how they're used in the UK and what the recognised usage practices are now they've been popular for a while.

I found a great torque screwdriver and bought it from a company that sells firearms and it wasn’t expensive at all.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I've invented a torque wrist calibrator, a small box with 10 screws on it each one lights up at the labelled torque. We can then verify our own hand power settings every morning.

I theory you could buy one of those cheap torque check boxes and actually practice hitting certain torques with your wrist.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I found a great torque screwdriver and bought it from a company that sells firearms and it wasn’t expensive at all.

You can buy a normal torque screwdriver for as little a £10 on Ebay , the only issue is they are not Vde rated for the Uk

 

[mainline]

One of these maybe handy to have.

RS 663-904 Torque Analyser with 0-13 Nm / 0-120 lbf in - Calibrated | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for RS 663-904 Torque Analyser with 0-13 Nm / 0-120 lbf in - Calibrated at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[netblindpaul]

Long time no see and I hope you're all doing well.

I see that torque screwdrivers have become the height of fashion in the UK over the last couple of years. I wondered what general practice has been adopted regarding their use.

Are electricians expected to;
Have a torque screwdriver on site at all times?
Check torque of all terminations in CU's / DB's they open or just any new terminations they make?
Check the torque of all terminations in any accessories they open?

Also;
Is acceptable to do torque testing live in a CU (assuming a VDE screwdriver)? Is a risk assessment required for live torque testing?
If torque testing is performed in a DB/CU do you just check screws for tightness or do you loosen off all terminations first then re-torque to the correct figure to eliminate overtightened connections as well as loose ones?

Scam members are expected to use a torque screwdriver for every termination to comply with the terms of their membership. What is done is another thing.

On an EICR, it might be expected to check terminations, but the requirements of an EICR are also minimum disturbance.

Any new terminations are expected to be completed with a torque driver; as I have said, this is a requirement of scam membership and is inferred in BS 7671.

It isn't a requirement to re-check every termination you come across.

It is not acceptable to torque terminations live unless this can be justified under the live working assessment in the law.
It is not reasonable to expect that it is necessary to do such a thing with the circuits energised.

To ensure that termination is at the correct torque, it is necessary to slacken it and then re-tighten it.
Hence, you are disturbing the connection, which is not good when doing an EICR.
Things could go wrong, or a latent defect could be introduced.

Such devices would need calibration in accordance with the screwdriver OEM instructions and/or any quality standards your company is working to.
Also, the scam membership requirements may have a calibration period.

The calibration period for a torque screwdriver would typically be annual.
Mind, if it fails, then you should strictly speaking revisit every connection made since the last calibration, like that is going to happen!
So, watch this space for the monthly check devices and scam requirements to check your drivers against the known source every month!

 

[Marvo]

If it's not acceptable to torque live terminations why would you even bother to get a VDE rated torque screwdriver, you could just use a normal mechanics version which I'm sure would be considerably cheaper.

I've bought one now to see what all the hate is about. There's none available over the counter here at any of our electrical wholesalers so I had to get it on Amazon and the shipping cost as much as the damn tool. There's also no calibration facitily available here so I won't be able to use it in real life for very long. The one I got is a Draper and it comes as a kit with various handles and interchangable blades which are obviously proprietary fitting and you can't use Wiha or Wera blades or standard 1/4 in bits in it.

 

[netblindpaul]

If it's not acceptable to torque live terminations why would you even bother to get a VDE rated torque screwdriver, you could just use a normal mechanics version which I'm sure would be considerably cheaper.

I've bought one now to see what all the hate is about. There's none available over the counter here at any of our electrical wholesalers so I had to get it on Amazon and the shipping cost as much as the damn tool. There's also no calibration facitily available here so I won't be able to use it in real life for very long. The one I got is a Draper and it comes as a kit with various handles and interchangable blades which are obviously proprietary fitting and you can't use Wiha or Wera blades or standard 1/4 in bits in it.

The H&S "bods" in the UK can't understand that people can work on isolated equipment without using insulated tools.
However, in their defence, the UK public distribution network is in such a poor state of repair that the PME/TN-C-S system using CNE/PEN conductors is breaking down and there are many more PEN failures than are reported.
A PEN failure can result in a rise in potential of N & E conductors, which could be unexpected and hazardous, to persons.
So then an insulated tool helps.

I once met a contractor that was thrown off site for not using insulated tools.
It was crazy really, yes, he was working in the main incoming DB, but, there was no supply to the building at the time!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Most Insulated hand tools really don't cost that much more than non-insulated hand tools.
A basic 6 piece Set of screwdrivers possibly costs a fiver more to buy them Vde rated.
I know we aren't supposed to work Live , but we all poke about in the odd board which is Live so is wise to use Vde rated screwdrivers

 

[richy3333]

Scam members are expected to use a torque screwdriver for every termination to comply with the terms of their membership. What is done is another thing.

On an EICR, it might be expected to check terminations, but the requirements of an EICR are also minimum disturbance.

Any new terminations are expected to be completed with a torque driver; as I have said, this is a requirement of scam membership and is inferred in BS 7671.

It isn't a requirement to re-check every termination you come across.

It is not acceptable to torque terminations live unless this can be justified under the live working assessment in the law.
It is not reasonable to expect that it is necessary to do such a thing with the circuits energised.

To ensure that termination is at the correct torque, it is necessary to slacken it and then re-tighten it.
Hence, you are disturbing the connection, which is not good when doing an EICR.
Things could go wrong, or a latent defect could be introduced.

Such devices would need calibration in accordance with the screwdriver OEM instructions and/or any quality standards your company is working to.
Also, the scam membership requirements may have a calibration period.

The calibration period for a torque screwdriver would typically be annual.
Mind, if it fails, then you should strictly speaking revisit every connection made since the last calibration, like that is going to happen!
So, watch this space for the monthly check devices and scam requirements to check your drivers against the known source every month!

Which 'scam' are you referring to as I had my NICEIC annual assessment 2 weeks ago and he had no interest in asking about torque screwdrivers at all? We tested at a couple of CU's - continuity and insulation resistance. Removed cables were re-terminated in front of the assessor with no torque driver?

 

[netblindpaul]

Which 'scam' are you referring to as I had my NICEIC annual assessment 2 weeks ago and he had no interest in asking about torque screwdrivers at all? We tested at a couple of CU's - continuity and insulation resistance. Removed cables were re-terminated in front of the assessor with no torque driver?

When I was with the NIC my area engineer was happy that I had one, and that was the end of the conversation, but, it was a tick on his form.
Mind it was a few years ago, maybe the policy has changed, or perhaps my engineer was a bit more by the book.
I don't know.