Two fused spurs from one current socket?

[Daniel Shepherd]

Hi,

I'm doing some work on a room I want to convert into an office space.

It currently has three sockets in it. One has two neutral and two live wires connected to the socket, the other two have 3 live an neutral wires (this wiring is done circa mid 60's we think.

I plan to add about 2000kw (just under) of underfloor heating and I want to take some sockets into a large cupboard area to run some server equipment and the like.

My plan was to take the socket which currently has two live wires and two neutrals wires and convert it into a 13 amp fused spur instead - from this I will run some sockets for the lower power gear in the cupboards. But I also wanted to take my electric underfloor heating from this socket too and I planned to run another separate switched fused spur for that.

So if I were to do that, I assume i'd wire it like this. Take the current socket which has two live and two neutral wires and put them into the supply side of the fused spur, also adding another feed of 2.5mm twin and earth so there are 3 live and 3 neutrals in the supply side - the two current ones and my new feed which will go to the switched fused spur i'll connect the underfloor heating to. From the load size of this first FCU i'll connect my extension sockets in the cupboard.

That's correct isn't it? Protecting two separate supplies with a 13amp fuse - one for multiple sockets and one for the underfloor heating whilst keeping the two fused loads separate.

Thanks!

 

[suffolkspark]

Sounds a bad design.... Get an electrician in

 

[westward10]

Trying to get three into the supply side of a fused spur is a bad idea, even experienced electricians curse and swear attempting it. Then you have the load side to connect. As above get an electrician in.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Hi,

I'm doing some work on a room I want to convert into an office space.

It currently has three sockets in it. One has two neutral and two live wires connected to the socket, the other two have 3 live an neutral wires (this wiring is done circa mid 60's we think.

I plan to add about 2000kw (just under) of underfloor heating and I want to take some sockets into a large cupboard area to run some server equipment and the like.

My plan was to take the socket which currently has two live wires and two neutrals wires and convert it into a 13 amp fused spur instead - from this I will run some sockets for the lower power gear in the cupboards. But I also wanted to take my electric underfloor heating from this socket too and I planned to run another separate switched fused spur for that.

So if I were to do that, I assume i'd wire it like this. Take the current socket which has two live and two neutral wires and put them into the supply side of the fused spur, also adding another feed of 2.5mm twin and earth so there are 3 live and 3 neutrals in the supply side - the two current ones and my new feed which will go to the switched fused spur i'll connect the underfloor heating to. From the load size of this first FCU i'll connect my extension sockets in the cupboard.

That's correct isn't it? Protecting two separate supplies with a 13amp fuse - one for multiple sockets and one for the underfloor heating whilst keeping the two fused loads separate.

Thanks!

Hi Daniel

There would be more too it than that.
That circuit would need to identified correctly as to what it is (ring or radial), what rating of circuit protection it has, what it's existing load is, tested and proved safe for continued service before you could even consider adding additional loads to it.
Without being rude, you don't sound like you have the experience or equipment to make that judgement.

Also, say it did check out ok, lashing everything onto same circuit is not the smartest move.....would they really want the servers going off when someone plugs a faulty hoover in or the underfloor heating develops a fault?

Get an Electrician in, explain all the electrical loads you will require and have him design a compliant install utilising what he can of the existing

 

[TJ Anderson]

.

 

[Pete999]

What they both said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Cadgey123]

Don’t do it Daniel.... sounds like you will blow yourself up or at least that FCU backbox with 16million cables in behind.

 

[Pete999]

Don’t do it Daniel.... sounds like you will blow yourself up or at least that FCU backbox with 16million cables in behind.

Dianne Abbott is not involved in this is she?

 

[Daniel Shepherd]

Thanks guys - I do have a spark coming around anyway - it was his idea to replace the socket with a fused spur so I could get some extensions running around the cupboards (without just doing it with an extension cable on show) and he rated the load for the underfloor heating fine (considering i'd probably just have a 2kw heated plugged into the socket alternatively to heat the room anyway)

I'll go through it properly with him when he comes anyway, I just wanted to get a jump on buying the spurs if in theory that was the correct way to do it (basically 3 into the supply side, one into the load...as opposed to two into the load)

 

[Daniel Shepherd]

Also, say it did check out ok, lashing everything onto same circuit is not the smartest move.....would they really want the servers going off when someone plugs a faulty hoover in or the underfloor heating develops a fault?

They'd be on separate circuits though wouldn't they? The underfloor heating has it's own 13amp FCU if it developed a fault it would be isolated there. The server gear has it's own separate 13amp FCU.

As for the faulty hoover thing, there's not much I could about that anyway, it appears 3-4 rooms are all on the same ring end circuit anyway, so if anyone plugs a faulty hoover into one of the sockets it'd trip everything off in all 4 rooms. Unfortunately the house is entirely solid brick so no easy plasterboard rewires on offer, but it's served us ok for 30+ years that way. The alternative would be running the server gear off trailing sockets, which in my mind is exactly the same as running an extension from a new FCU, except the 13amp fuse is now in the all unit rather than a plug you can see with sockets on the end. To keep the network gear running in outages I have them on a small UPS anyway too.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Dianne Abbott is not involved in this is she?

She could well be but we'd never know. No one can get a straight answer out of her!

 

[Pete999]

Thanks guys - I do have a spark coming around anyway - it was his idea to replace the socket with a fused spur so I could get some extensions running around the cupboards (without just doing it with an extension cable on show) and he rated the load for the underfloor heating fine (considering i'd probably just have a 2kw heated plugged into the socket alternatively to heat the room anyway)

I'll go through it properly with him when he comes anyway, I just wanted to get a jump on buying the spurs if in theory that was the correct way to do it (basically 3 into the supply side, one into the load...as opposed to two into the load)

Just reiterate it is a recommendation only that loads of >2KW would be best served on their own dedicated circuit, put that to him and see what he recommends.

 

[Daniel Shepherd]

Just reiterate it is a recommendation only that loads of >2KW would be best served on their own dedicated circuit, put that to him and see what he recommends.

I will do. In theory though is that not just a bit over cautious? It's a 32amp ring main, it'll be on it's own 13amp FCU and it's actually less than 2kw (I think it worked out at 1800 in the end for the area) and it will probably only be on 2-4 hours a day maximum.
This seems safer to me than plugging a Dyson heater in on on the end of a 4 way extension cable, which is connected to another extension cable, which is connected to another extension cable (thats where it is at the minute) and running it for a few hours a day.

Although it a perfect world, it would be nice to give it it's own 10amp breaker - there's no space in the consumer unit and as mentioned there's no route into any of the rooms as all the walls are fully sealed up and the loft is an utter nightmare.

 

[TJ Anderson]

They'd be on separate circuits though wouldn't they? The underfloor heating has it's own 13amp FCU if it developed a fault it would be isolated there.

Wouldn't those FCU'S be fed from the same ring circuit at the consumer unit/fuseboard though?

 

[Daniel Shepherd]

Wouldn't those FCU'S be fed from the same ring circuit at the consumer unit/fuseboard though?

Yes, they would, it's a 32amp circuit. As mentioned the underfloor heating would be replacing a 2kw-3kw electric heater that would end up being plugged into the same circuit instead. I might add we have no gas at all at the property so everything is electric.

The network gear is all currently plugged into the circuit anyway. There's currently about 30 plugs in one room feeding all manner of low amp devices that will just be moved to this room. So the load on the circuit will remain the same, it's just a way to hide the cable in the wall and behind skirting into the cupboard rather than running a plug with an extension lead on it into the cupboard which you can see.

The only new load on the circuit is the underfloor heating, which ideally would have it's own breaker in the consumer unit but isn't really feasible Which is a shame because there are about 6 lighting circuits in there which all have 6amp each and we run all LED's now so it's total overkill. But it's about 1800kw and would be used instead of a 2-3kw electric heater that'd be plugged into the socket.