Unable to separate wires on ring circuit

[HandyMann]

as previous posts. this method of installation is beyond the scope of DIY and/or short course "domestic imbeciles installers". you need an old school sparks to do the job safe.

Even when I was a DIY enthusiast, before becoming a dangerous domestic installer I wouldn’t have done anything so imbecilic. Despite never doing a 4 year apprenticeship I can certainly install metal conduit competently.

 

[Norah Nabino]

Yes, I understand that the conduit may have been the earth. there were no connections from the existing cables the original socket. I sent this photo because this is where I got to and got stuck. I'm not using the sockets like this, the room isn't even in use.
The circuit is indeed a ring.
I was going to simply separate the cables so that one set goes into this socket (which would then be earthed) and the other set goes into the existing socket below (which would also be earthed).
I have metal trunking to go over all exposed cables, to avoid them being drilled into, but I haven't fitted it yet in this area due to it not being finished.

Can you perform continuity of ring final circuit? ?If so this might help you to identfy the different cables.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The OP (I think) is trying to identify which L&N pair belong to each other to try and maintain true ring rather than a possible making a figure of 8.
Firstly he needs to confirm that all of the singles in that conduit are actually of the same circuit(!). Then, some continuity testing, by some crafty L-N shorting at an adjacent socket, will determine the incoming and outgoing pair.
Alternatively a low-ohm meter will tell you, simply by resistance of the two legs back to the CU (unless you are unlucky enough to be exactly in the middle of the ring!)

 

[Timbo]

There is also, of course, the high possibility of a nice sharp burr on the inside of that cut conduit.

 

[Andy Gardner]

@Andy Gardner I'm curious. How did you actually achieve this. You have a new back box inserted into the middle of a conduit run. You have said that your father has cut the conduit with a pipe cutter and pipe slice. (I'm impressed he did that with the singles still in place without damaging the conductors.

Having done the cuts, how did you remove the piece of conduit and get the singles through the holes in the back box?
Is there another box above or below the new box that you have access to?

The end of the conduit run was just below this new backbox, only about 30cm below, so it was easy enough to get the wires back through.

If you think of it this way - an electrician may have charged anything from £50 to £100 for 1 extra socket all done and dusted - How many hours have you spent on this so far...could your hours have been spent more productively elsewhere while paying an electrician the £--- ?

I'm actually adding another 4 sockets as well - this new backbox in the picture was purely just for cable joining purposes, though I see now that it probably would've been better to just replace the backbox with a double and then join the cables in there, however, it's too late for that.
But yes, I do understand your point, and I was in fact originally going to get someone in to do all of this, but they let me down, so I just started working on it myself - I also enjoy learning these things.

If it's 20mm, how about a Conlok coupler to connect the existing run to a barrel nipple, coupler and bush to get into the new box. Are Conlok joints designed to be buried in plaster? OTOH if this is 3/4", which presumably 20mm

Hoping to get hold of a tap and die set to thread the existing conduit - it's not fully attached to the fall so I'm hoping I'll be able to move it enough to thread it - but thanks for this, I'll look into it. I figured, if it comes to it, I'll file down the conduit enough that I can slide the coupler onto it, meaning it still has contact so it's earthed.

Is using PVC conduit acceptable? Just thinking of what to do to join to the below socket, since it's still the single cored cable. After that it'll all be twin and earth.

 

[Andy Gardner]

The OP (I think) is trying to identify which L&N pair belong to each other to try and maintain true ring rather than a possible making a figure of 8.
Firstly he needs to confirm that all of the singles in that conduit are actually of the same circuit(!). Then, some continuity testing, by some crafty L-N shorting at an adjacent socket, will determine the incoming and outgoing pair.
Alternatively a low-ohm meter will tell you, simply by resistance of the two legs back to the CU (unless you are unlucky enough to be exactly in the middle of the ring!)

I managed to identify the wires (my original question) like this:
Having noticed that the conduit seemed to be heading back to the fusebox, I figured that this was potentially the end of the ring, so, I turned the power off, disconnecting one of the live wires from my socket circuit at the MCB and one at the socket below the backbox pictured, isolating the separated wire in choc bloc each time, put a continuity tester in the socket, then turned the power back on and checked the tester to see when the live wire was missing. I did the same with neutral and earth. Took about 1.5 hours but I got there!

And thank you, you're basically the only person who's actually tried to answer my question, though I appreciate all the other advice about conduits! (Not so much the suggestion of being an imbecile...)

 

[Norah Nabino]

Yes, I understand that the conduit may have been the earth. there were no connections from the existing cables the original socket. I sent this photo because this is where I got to and got stuck. I'm not using the sockets like this, the room isn't even in use.
The circuit is indeed a ring.
I was going to simply separate the cables so that one set goes into this socket (which would then be earthed) and the other set goes into the existing socket below (which would also be earthed).
I have metal trunking to go over all exposed cables, to avoid them being drilled into, but I haven't fitted it yet in this area due to it not being finished.

Can you perform contuity of ring final circuit? ?If so this might help you to identfy the different cables.

I managed to identify the wires (my original question) like this:
Having noticed that the conduit seemed to be heading back to the fusebox, I figured that this was potentially the end of the ring, so, I turned the power off, disconnecting one of the live wires from my socket circuit at the MCB and one at the socket below the backbox pictured, isolating the separated wire in choc bloc each time, put a continuity tester in the socket, then turned the power back on and checked the tester to see when the live wire was missing. I did the same with neutral and earth. Took about 1.5 hours but I got there!

And thank you, you're basically the only person who's actually tried to answer my question, though I appreciate all the other advice about conduits! (Not so much the suggestion of being an imbecile...)

This is supposed to be a dead test.
What do you mean you switched on the power to check continuity? ?
Be very careful,you don't seem to be competent for this kind of job.
You need a qualified spark in very urgently.

 

[Pete999]

There is also, of course, the high possibility of a nice sharp burr on the inside of that cut conduit.

There is also a distinct possibility that the OP is going to ignore any, if not all, of the advice given so far.

 

[mrloy99]

Agree with Conlok coupler and bush. You have no mission threading it. Conlok will slide on. Only one half of it is threaded

 

[Andy Gardner]

Well thanks for the advice, I went with a Conlok coupler in the end, so that's all sorted, then joined the old single cables to new twin and earth inside the backbox with 32A rated joiners.

 

[Charlie_]

Dowe one of the t+e cables run straight through the back box?
Are you going to put capping over the cables?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Why might capping be needed?

 

[Andy Gardner]

no, as there was no t+e in the conduit, there are 2 sets of single cables as per the original post. One t+e is joining 1 set of singles in the backbox, the other is going into the socket with the other set of singles.
I have put metal trunking over the top of the t+e, but I took this photo before I did that.

 

[Charlie_]

Why might capping be needed?

Wall might be getting rendered and if it isn’t would look better than it is

 

[SparkyAndGeorge]

How did you determine which was the incoming and outgoing leg of the ring