Upstairs flat cutout

[timhoward]

Your thoughts please.
Upstairs flat. This is supply side.

It disappears through an air brick, and possibly goes to a shed downstairs but I've been there during daylight hours yet.

There's a DNO-looking earth running with it. (The 1.5mm comes from the CU).
Obviously whatever it feeds is unmetered.
Is there a plausible reason this is legit that I'm missing as my current intention is to check what is other end and probably call DNO.

 

[James]

Can't think of a legitimate reason for that cable to be there.
something dodgy going on, either now or in the past is the most likely explanation.

 

[timhoward]

Can't think of a legitimate reason for that cable to be there.
something dodgy going on, either now or in the past is the most likely explanation.

Thanks James, I think my gut reaction is sound, it's just the braiding looks so similar to the tails!

 

[snowhead]

Is this an ex Local Authority property, are there any walkways with lights outside?
It could be or have been an unmetered but assessed supply just as street lights used to be.

 

[littlespark]

Streetlight maybe?

 

[timhoward]

Is this an ex Local Authority property, are there any walkways with lights outside?
It could be or have been an unmetered but assessed supply just as street lights used to be.

Yes, it is ex council. Mostly privately owned now. There is a common path along the back at ground level so it could be lit.
I really need to look in daylight - if there is a streetlight it certainly doesn't work, it was pitch black out the back with lots of invisible ice so I didn't linger long.

 

[timhoward]

I'd decided it was going to be a street light, but I was wrong.

I found it goes out of the building, along under the gutter, and back into the building.
There was a locked box in the right area that looked like it could contain a CU for common area.
As luck would have it there was a council sparks working downstairs who duly opened the box up, and bingo, the cable goes into another cut-out (with presumably a very low rated fuse) and directly feeds a CU for emergency lighting and access control.

So the questions would seem to be:
-are DNO happy with the arrangements as it's all their side of things
-does anybody anywhere care that it's unmetered

Chatting to the council sparks about it we've agreed to ask Scottish Power to take a look.
They may well play the "responsibility of BNO" card, but we have to start somewhere.

 

[Hakuhou]

Your thoughts please.
Upstairs flat. This is supply side.

View attachment 119302

It disappears through an air brick, and possibly goes to a shed downstairs but I've been there during daylight hours yet.

View attachment 119303

There's a DNO-looking earth running with it. (The 1.5mm comes from the CU).
Obviously whatever it feeds is unmetered.
Is there a plausible reason this is legit that I'm missing as my current intention is to check what is other end and probably call DNO.

Re the first picture has someone connected a live and neutral directly to the main fuse and sent that out to supply something?
This would also bypass the meter in a normal install wouldn’t it?

 

[timhoward]

Re the first picture has someone connected a live and neutral directly to the main fuse and sent that out to supply something?
This would also bypass the meter in a normal install wouldn’t it?

Yes. That is exactly what I was thinking and concerned about. It looks like the "someone" was the DNO. See post #7.

 

[Hakuhou]

Yes. That is exactly what I was thinking and concerned about. It looks like the "someone" was the DNO. See post #7.

This is for my own learning, looking at the install:

• unless I’m missing something there’s no earthing protection between the main fuse and the other consumer unit (nor between the other cu and the fixtures?), so if an earth fault were to occur anywhere on those paths then the supply would continue to flow
• there is no short circuit or overload protection on the cable between the main fuse and the other consumer unit
• there is an issue with the unprotected phase and neutral coming out of the main fuse

Is there anyway to make this safe/er before the DNO would attend?
Is there anyway to safely isolate the « dodgy » cable without pulling the main fuse?
Would the most pressing issue be the unprotected ground faults?

 

[timhoward]

This is for my own learning, looking at the install:

• unless I’m missing something there’s no earthing protection between the main fuse and the other consumer unit (nor between the other cu and the fixtures?), so if an earth fault were to occur anywhere on those paths then the supply would continue to flow

There is actually a separate unsheathed earth running with the cable. A good thought to have but earthing doesn't appear to be an issue.

there is no short circuit or overload protection on the cable between the main fuse and the other consumer unit

Correct thought. The cable in question is coming out of the supply side of the main fuse so the only upstream protective device is at the nearest transformer / substation.
It's for the DNO to say whether they are happy with the size and condition of it and the way it's run. They have their own guidelines which are different to BS7671 that we work to.

there is an issue with the unprotected phase and neutral coming out of the main fuse

I certainly don't like it. If it was our side of the meter it definitely wouldn't comply.

Is there anyway to make this safe/er before the DNO would attend?

It isn't an urgent enough issue to warrant interfering with 'their world'. It isn't my customer's property. I'll report it when I'm next there and they will usually be there within an hour.

Is there anyway to safely isolate the « dodgy » cable without pulling the main fuse?

No. This is all not 'our side of the meter' so not our domain. Furthermore it's the supply side of main fuse and supplies someone who isn't my customer. It's not sensible to touch it.

The other flats all have concentric cable and newer cutouts. This all has the air of being 'overlooked' when things were upgraded.

 

[Hakuhou]

There is actually a separate unsheathed earth running with the cable. A good thought to have but earthing doesn't appear to be an issue.

Correct thought. The cable in question is coming out of the supply side of the main fuse so the only upstream protective device is at the nearest transformer / substation.
It's for the DNO to say whether they are happy with the size and condition of it and the way it's run. They have their own guidelines which are different to BS7671 that we work to.

I certainly don't like it. If it was our side of the meter it definitely wouldn't comply.

It isn't an urgent enough issue to warrant interfering with 'their world'. It isn't my customer's property. I'll report it when I'm next there and they will usually be there within an hour.

No. This is all not 'our side of the meter' so not our domain. Furthermore it's the supply side of main fuse and supplies someone who isn't my customer. It's not sensible to touch it.

The other flats all have concentric cable and newer cutouts. This all has the air of being 'overlooked' when things were upgraded.

Thank you for the detailed answer @timhoward