Using an inverter for home backup power

[toddlaroche]

I’m interested in using a high-capacity inverter as home power backup when the grid goes down. I see that there are high-capacity inverters such as this one: AIMS Power 6000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 120/240VAC Output, PICOGLF60W24V240VS - https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/electrical/power-inverter/power-inverter-pure-sine/6000-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger-120-240vac-output-picoglf60w24v240vs?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItoT_1PqA6AIVEl8NCh1GOQTAEAQYAiABEgLQOfD_BwE Now, I’m curious to know if these can be wired directly into my breaker panel the way I’ve already done for my gas generator. I could feed it into a bipole 50amp breaker for 240v power for my well pump and other things. Is anyone out there familiar with this type of installation/use of an inverter??
backup power supply

 

[Megawatt]

I’m interested in using a high-capacity inverter as home power backup when the grid goes down. I see that there are high-capacity inverters such as this one: AIMS Power 6000 Watt Pure Sine Inverter Charger 120/240VAC Output, PICOGLF60W24V240VS - https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/electrical/power-inverter/power-inverter-pure-sine/6000-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger-120-240vac-output-picoglf60w24v240vs?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItoT_1PqA6AIVEl8NCh1GOQTAEAQYAiABEgLQOfD_BwE Now, I’m curious to know if these can be wired directly into my breaker panel the way I’ve already done for my gas generator. I could feed it into a bipole 50amp breaker for 240v power for my well pump and other things. Is anyone out there familiar with this type of installation/use of an inverter??
backup power supply

Todd welcome to the forum and it looks like it needs 24vdc input and 240/120 vac output. I’m no expert on inverters but I’m assuming that you will need two 12vdc batteries wired in series to get 24vdc and what is going to be charging the batteries ?

 

[sparks1234]

Todd welcome to the forum and it looks like it needs 24vdc input and 240/120 vac output. I’m no expert on inverters but I’m assuming that you will need two 12vdc batteries wired in series to get 24vdc and what is going to be charging the batteries ?

I would assume that he would keep the batteries charged and use them when the grid goes down and recharge when it comes back

 

[Mike Johnson]

Isn't an inverter to change one power source to another, or to step down/up a power output to a different power output i.e. from three phase to single phase or to change the Hz rating to slow a motor, at least that's what I use one for, I thought backup power was a UPS (uninterruptible power supply)?

 

[Megawatt]

Isn't an inverter to change one power source to another, or to step down/up a power output to a different power output i.e. from three phase to single phase or to change the Hz rating to slow a motor, at least that's what I use one for, I thought backup power was a UPS (uninterruptible power supply)?

Mike an inverter converts DC to AC. Yes they are also UPS which basically is the same thing just a whole lot more batteries. An inverter does not change 3 phase to single phase, not for domestic and it not able to change the HZ that I’m aware of. It has a 24vdc input and a 240/120 vac output to feed his panel when a power outage happens.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Yes of course, it's late here and I am a bottle of Claret down, got confused with VFD's hic, hic still it must have given you a laugh, I'm cringing.

 

[toddlaroche]

Todd welcome to the forum and it looks like it needs 24vdc input and 240/120 vac output. I’m no expert on inverters but I’m assuming that you will need two 12vdc batteries wired in series to get 24vdc and what is going to be charging the batteries ?

Yes of course, it's late here and I am a bottle of Claret down, got confused with VFD's hic, hic still it must have given you a laugh, I'm cringing.

I would probably use 4 12v car batteries in series. The inverter is also a charger for the batteries when grid is up.
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Mike an inverter converts DC to AC. Yes they are also UPS which basically is the same thing just a whole lot more batteries. An inverter does not change 3 phase to single phase, not for domestic and it not able to change the HZ that I’m aware of. It has a 24vdc input and a 240/120 vac output to feed his panel when a power outage happens.

So how do I wire the inverter into the breaker panel?

 

[Zerax]

I'm a fan of Victron equipment... just google them for what you want... they'll have all the information you need.

 

[telectrix]

I'm a fan of Victron equipment... just google them for what you want... they'll have all the information you need.

my old eyes read that as "victorian", just seeing you as Fred Dibnah, stoking up a steam engine.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

how do I wire the inverter into the breaker pane?

You need a transfer switch, either manual or automatic. The same applies to a gas powered generator. It selects the appropriate source and feeds it into the panel input, so it must be rated to suit the largest supply. Some inverters can be purchased with an integrated transfer switch, giving them near UPS functionality. A separate feed from the grid side may be needed to power the integral battery charger if there is one.

It is not permissible to wire the output a normal battery-to-mains inverter into an outgoing breaker within the panel, since this can back-feed the PoCo line and cause danger.

 

[toddlaroche]

You need a transfer switch, either manual or automatic. The same applies to a gas powered generator. It selects the appropriate source and feeds it into the panel input, so it must be rated to suit the largest supply. Some inverters can be purchased with an integrated transfer switch, giving them near UPS functionality. A separate feed from the grid side may be needed to power the integral battery charger if there is one.

It is not permissible to wire the output a normal battery-to-mains inverter into an outgoing breaker within the panel, since this can back-feed the PoCo line and cause danger.

Thanks for your thoughts! I’m looking to hear from someone who understands my needs and US convention. In the States, we use an interlock (which I have installed) on the breaker panel, which prevents a back-wired breaker from being on when the main breaker is on, thereby preventing any possibility of the back-up power source feeding into the grid. A generator with a four-line output (2 hots, a neutral and a ground) is easily wired into the breaker panel directly (in my case using a bi-pole 50amp breaker) when an interlock is in place. The 2 hots go into the breaker (for 240v service) and the neutral and ground go to the combined bus bar for those (this is my primary panel, so the neutral and ground bus are combined). Here’s my question: how does an inverter get wired into a panel—if I want 240v service to the panel (to run a well pump for example)?? How do I “Split” one lead coming from the inverter across the two “inputs” of a bi-pole breaker and wire the other lead to the neutral bus? But then how does the ground circuit get configured in this case?? See my point...I haven’t seen inverters that provide a 4-line output (2 hots, a neutral and a ground) the way a fuel-based generator does.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

OK cool I've checked out the panel interlocks - as you've realised we don't have them in the UK so I've learned something.

There are inverters that give you both 120V hots with 240V between them. I googled 'split-phase inverter' and got items such as this on Amazon: Split phase 120/240 V inverter
I think a bit of trawling might locate a unit suitable for your needs. Alternatively, to power a panel that has both 120V and 240V loads using a single-voltage 120V or 240V inverter would require a transformer with a 120-0-120V split-phase winding. There are some shoddy workarounds that I won't go into.

A panel with only 120V loads split across 2 hots could theoretically be powered from a 120V inverter, although any multiwire branch circuits would have to be checked to ensure the neutral would not be overloaded if the same hot were used for both feeds. Obviously 240V equipment would be live but would not function.

In any case, the neutral point of the inverter output or the centre-tap of a split-phase transformer will be connected to neutral and hence ground in the panel. The inverter casing might require a ground connection back from the panel too.

 

[sinewove]

OK cool I've checked out the panel interlocks - as you've realised we don't have them in the UK so I've learned something.

There are inverters that give you both 120V hots with 240V between them. I googled 'split-phase inverter' and got items such as this on Amazon: Split phase 120/240 V inverter
I think a bit of trawling might locate a unit suitable for your needs. Alternatively, to power a panel that has both 120V and 240V loads using a single-voltage 120V or 240V inverter would require a transformer with a 120-0-120V split-phase winding. There are some shoddy workarounds that I won't go into.

A panel with only 120V loads split across 2 hots could theoretically be powered from a 120V inverter, although any multiwire branch circuits would have to be checked to ensure the neutral would not be overloaded if the same hot were used for both feeds. Obviously 240V equipment would be live but would not function.

In any case, the neutral point of the inverter output or the centre-tap of a split-phase transformer will be connected to neutral and hence ground in the panel. The inverter casing might require a ground connection back from the panel too.

Isn't the problem with these rigs,there,s insufficient fault current to trip the panel breakers in the event of a l to n short cct?

 

[Zerax]

my old eyes read that as "victorian", just seeing you as Fred Dibnah, stoking up a steam engine.

Tele... I'm also a fan of most things victorian and indeed Fred Dibnah... if you haven't already seen it... and you're not afraid of heights... check YouTube for his techniques on "How to Ladder a Chimney" !

 

[telectrix]

Tele... I'm also a fan of most things victorian and indeed Fred Dibnah... if you haven't already seen it... and you're not afraid of heights... check YouTube for his techniques on "How to Ladder a Chimney" !

i have 6 of his cd's and 4 of his books. i have visited his house and garden in Bolton to see his steam equipment. met him at a couple of steam rallys. the man was a legend.