Using other cable as bonding

[cadspark]

Hi guys,

Having read the bgb i'm still not sure on this one. I'd like to run a length of 10mm black conduit cable for bonding to water as most of the run will be visible on exposed beams in old house. Any thoughts on if this would be acceptable as long as I sleeve the terminating points at either end with green/yellow. I've done this when running swa and using third core as an earth but not sure if its allowed when the conductor is not double insulated.

 

[Darkwood]

reg 541.6.1 gives you the occasions you are allowed to omit the colour or markings of a conductors and dosnt show the method you want to use, i would in your case run a small black conduit with the discreat saddle style or trunking where it passes across the exposed beams.

 

[Chr!s]

reg 541.6.1 gives you the occasions you are allowed to omit the colour or markings of a conductors and dosnt show the method you want to use, i would in your case run a small black conduit with the discreat saddle style or trunking where it passes across the exposed beams.

Id read that Reg again, (Omission of identification by colour or marking).

 

[Des 56]

The regulations tell us that green/yellow singles shall only be used as a protective conductor
With regard to the question,there doesn't appear to be anything saying its not permitted

There is a reg that says when green/yellow id is used, it shall not be numbered except for circuit identification
That says to me its ok to do as proposed

 

[Chr!s]

I see no issues

Regards Chris

 

[Richard Burns]

I think this is acceptable, but not recommended. So long as the terminations are appropriately coloured then it does meet the requirements. (514.3.2)
However I think the use of a thin black conduit or pipe would look neater as you could use fewer supports.

 

[Darkwood]

Id read that Reg again, (Omission of identification by colour or marking).

yes my error should say 514.6.1 but i still think using visible phase colour throughout its length is bad practice in the least, there are alternative methods as ive noted above to hide the obvious clashing colours against the wood beam and the only times ive seen this is if its part of a multicore swa and a core has been utilised as an additional earth to the armoured which can be easily identified without confusion.

 

[Darkwood]

Also 514.4.4 (other conductors shall be identified by colour in accordance with table 51)...... i agree its a little ambiguous how the regs cover this issue but general common sense would note its bad practice in the least, you will effectively have a single core cable identified as a phase colour for the majority of it run now there isnt anything to say it cant be painted over on the beam to blend as it still keeps its identity throughout the length of its run.

 

[Chr!s]

Also 514.4.4 (other conductors shall be identified by colour in accordance with table 51)...... i agree its a little ambiguous how the regs cover this issue but general common sense would note its bad practice in the least, you will effectively have a single core cable identified as a phase colour for the majority of it run now there isnt anything to say it cant be painted over on the beam to blend as it still keeps its identity throughout the length of its run.

Not so sure id deem it as bad practice, there's nowt in the Regs not allowing this method, whether its green/yellow or black 10mm if someone whos not competent decides to remove or damage the cable then what can you do?

 

[Darkwood]

Il agree from a functional/electrical point of view it still does the job, but on this particular point think il agree to disagree as its a practice i wouldnt do myself and would personally class it as bad practice especially when there are alternatives to conceiling the cable over the beam if not just by painting it, this way it retains its obvious identification throughout its length, who knows what may happen future wise say a floorboard ripped up and this cable has been damaged or broken, its initial colour would identify it straight away but if it was marked as a phase colour it may be tested as dead and redundant without realising its actually a protective conductor.
The regs cant accommodate for every possible situation that joe blogs electrical may encounter and when this arises it comes down to common sense and applied educated guess-work and if i was asked if a 10mm black singles could be used as a earth conductor i would say its not something you catch me doing, cadsparks situation is easily rectified with conduit or trunking etc so dosn't warrent the need to have it wired in black and ive yet to see a situation where it is justified.

 

[Chr!s]

Il agree from a functional/electrical point of view it still does the job, but on this particular point think il agree to disagree as its a practice i wouldnt do myself and would personally class it as bad practice especially when there are alternatives to conceiling the cable over the beam if not just by painting it, this way it retains its obvious identification throughout its length, who knows what may happen future wise say a floorboard ripped up and this cable has been damaged or broken, its initial colour would identify it straight away but if it was marked as a phase colour it may be tested as dead and redundant without realising its actually a protective conductor.

i know what your saying, though id expect anyone who's competent not to have any issues, its marked at the terminations, its black single PVC 10mm, no other single PVC cable could be installed that way without additional mechanical protection, and to prove dead you couldn't just test at the point of damage and assume dead.

Regards Chris

 

[Darkwood]

Although we 2 are having this debate here, id be interested in what other well established members think on this issue, dont get me wrong i see your point and argument but in this particular case dont see the argument for using it against putting in normal G/Y 10mm .
Regards Darkwood.

 

[Chr!s]

I think Cadspark is the only one who can explain why best practice can not be used in this instance, im not saying it would be my choice, just that the regs allow this method, and bad practice sounds a little harsh to me certainly without seeing the installation.

Regards Chris

 

[Knobhead]

I can see the argument from both sides. But I’ve got to come down on the aesthetics side of the argument. If an electrician finds a single core and alarm bells aren’t ringing with him then he’s sorely lacking in common sense.

There’s a lot to be said for the old M&Q method where earth bonding would be 7/.064 (16mm) (minimum) unsheathed hard drawn. Even painted it was blatantly obvious what it was.

 

[telectrix]

it's not so long ago that black was only used for NEUTRAL. even today with it now being a phase conductor, any electrician with a brain would treat it with respect. obviously, being a single conductor unenclosed would say " this is an earth/bonding conductor." i nagree therefore with doing it, provided the terminations are sleeved green/yellow.