Utility company charges for our damage to lead sheathed electricity cabling

[Chrissyan]

Hi, I am looking for some advice, my bungalow was built in 1926 and in the 20 years that I have owned it there has always been an ugly lead pipe half chased in the plaster and half not, running behind the front door, making decorating in the hall awkward as well as being unsightly.

Having recently had some money to pay for house renovations I had the bungalow re-wired and then had a complete new bathroom installed so finally getting rid of the 90 year old fittings. I stipulated to the bathroom renovators that I required all the remaining lead water pipes to be removed.

After this work, the old ugly pipe was still in the hall, i assumed it was a, now defunct, water pipe and three weeks ago I asked my partner to remove it. He decided to pierce it first check that there was no water inside, luckily for him it was a rubber handled screw driver he used. That cable was the mains electricity coming into our home and my partner was extremely lucky.

Northern Power Grid Rapid response Team came out within 30 mins to start restoring our power, this involved digging up the path outside the door, labour from two/ three men for five hours, two vans and a digger and a week later another man to fill in the hole with cement.

Having just received a letter from Northern suggesting we may have been in touch with our insurance company, we haven't and wanting to know the name of the person who damaged their network, I am concerned. I don't believe for one minute we will be able to claim on the insurance for someone deliberately putting a screw driver through a cable. I am afraid we cannot afford to pay the,as yet unspecified, bill.

I am looking for an advice that might help me reduce this bill for instance should the lead electricity cable have been replaced anyway, either by Northern or by our electrician? I know putting a hole in an electricity cable sounds daft, but neither of us knew electricity cabling had ever come in lead and we are hoping to have something to say in our defense as I feel we may need to dispute this charge.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.:smiley2:

 

[telectrix]

had similar some years ago. i drilled through a lead incomer buried in the plaster alongside the door architrave. the EMEB as was then said they'd stand the cost as it should not have been there in the first place. alternatively, you may have accidental damage to your buildings insurance, so give them a call, explain what's happened.

 

[HandySparks]

Where is your electricity meter?

 

[Darkwood]

Hi, and welcome to the forum

Sounds like a a lucky escape considering what could have happened, In my opinion (Note it's only my opinion), you have damaged the cable and the utility company are in the right to claim or any subsequent repair work.
As for house insurance, you need to carefully read the small print in your insurance policy, this falls in a grey area as it was a deliberate act based on lack of knowledge, this been the case and if you are covered for accidental damage then your insurers could argue the case of 'ignorance' here thus this was no accident and more a unfortunate mistake.

You maybe tempted to alter the circumstances of events for insurance reasons but they will more than likely get a report from the Utility company and I assume you have already put your hands up to the chain of events as any respectable honest citizen would do, so be careful how you discuss this with your insurance company.

If you contact the utility company and express what has happened and you understand you are liable for the repair costs but don't have that kind of money available and want to come to some sort of arrangement to pay by instalments, they may be able to make the situe' easier on yourselves.

In the scope of things, and knowing my industry for pushing 30yrs, your partner is lucky to be alive regardless of the insulated driver, the flash over alone could have seriously burnt, blinded and/or left him with life changing injuries as so often is the case when breaching the incoming power cables, I would reflect on the lucky escape here and understand the money side can always be sorted with the correct arrangements or agreement, that's if as I suspect your insurance will not cover you. Again these are my opinions based on my experience but I'm not legally knowledged here so the only way to find out is to discuss and liaise with both your insurance provider and the utility company.

If this lead pipe/cable wasn't going straight into your cutout and/or was remote to your metering equipment thus not easily identifiable then like HandySparks is asking, you may have a case in your favour.

 

[Chrissyan]

Thanks for your replies guys and yes we are very lucky my o/h was seriously hurt or killed. :smile5: I am going to speak to the contact in my letter on Monday and then possibly call my insurance company

Where is your electricity meter?

In a purpose built cupboard over the front door, we have to give the meter reader a chair or steps depending on their height! Isn't everyone's? :biggrin5:

Looking at it now, the (now replaced) cable comes straight up through the floor boards behind the front door and feeds straight up into into the bottom corner of that cupboard ie: directly to the electricity meter.:dunce2:

 

[uksparks]

I would imagine the cutout was immediately above, I have never come across one that wasn't.

My opinion is also that of you damaged it intentially so you should pay.

without sounding stupid, if this was a water pipe that was active, did you not think it stupid poking a hole in it in the first place? How were you planning on stopping the water should it spurt out...

 

[Chrissyan]

without sounding stupid, if this was a water pipe that was active, did you not think it stupid poking a hole in it in the first place? How were you planning on stopping the water should it spurt out...

As I said in my first post we thought it was defunct, the very small hole was just a test to check, before it's removal.

 

[Marvo]

I feel for you, it's obviously one of those events that wasn't intentional but ended badly....although things could have been a damn sight worse by the sounds of things.

I wouldn't suggest you lie to your insurance company, if you're caught it would be fraud. TBH if you're not insured I'd ask for a meeting with the power company, plead your case, say you're sorry, tell them how good a customer you are and how you pay your utility bills on time and beg for a reasonable price. Tell them your dog's been sick in fact tell them anything you think might make them sympathetic.

Respectfully suggest that you don't mind paying for the price of a cable joint which is how cables are usually repaired but by replacing the entire cable the utility company has benefited greatly and should also come to the party regarding the costs.

 

[mache]

Glad your partner did not suffer any serious injury.
Last year I hit my incoming supply (I also was very lucky) with a cordless drill. I knew where the incomer was as I could see it and thought I was drilling in a line that took me away from the supply. Unfortunately what I didn't know at the time was that the incomer turned at an angle that crossed with the path I was drilling.
This was on a bank holiday weekend and like you I had two guys turn up initially, one with a van and the other a truck with a mini digger on a trailer.
Once they had confirmed the incomer was damaged they dug up outside then front door but also had to call a supervisor in as the jointer had not yet got his certificate for live jointing work. Anyway a couple of hours later power was back on and the hole temporary filled. That was concreted in a couple of days later. It was couple of months later when I got the letter. I signed for liability (i could hardly deni it) and not long later had a bill come though for about 495.00 GBP.
To be honest I thought was wasn't bad considering how quickly they had come out. About 160.00 of that was the supervisor costs. I wrote to the DNO and asked if they would waive the cost of the supervisor based on 1. that if the supply cable had not turned though an angle after it first penetrated the wall the incident would never have occurred, and 2. it was not my fault that the jointer was not yet certified for live working.
DNO agreed and I happly settled at 335.00 GBP ( I didn't bother with insurance).
I would say sign the current form of liability that you have, and see what the invoice total comes through at. You might want to at that point try for a mitigating circumstance, e.g that it was not clear that the metal work you went to remove was the supply cable and not an old water mains. You might get lucky or you might not.

 

[davesparks]

should the lead electricity cable have been replaced anyway, either by Northern or by our electrician?

Nope, the lead supply cable is property of the supply company and it would be illegal for the electrician to do anything to it.
Those old lead supply cables are actually a better made and stronger cable than the modern equivalent and you would probably have suffered more severe consequences if it was a modern plastic cable you had hammered a screwdriver in to.

 

[GETWIRED]

Im not sure on this, your husband stuck a screwdriver into a unidentified pipe/cable, then you're wanting to know if it is the electricians fault that the cable is there? Not cricket that in my opinion. Also if it was a water incomer there would be a chance that water would still be in the pipe disconnected or not so what would of done if there was water in there? Lol

i think your husband is lucky to be alive or atleast not gravely injured; like someone said. forget about pushing the blame, just put it across that you can only afford to pay the bill in installments like someone said.

 

[Chrissyan]

Thank you mache that has been most helpful, it has put my mind at rest :smile5: if we are charged a similar amount for all that work I will be happy, I just wish they would get on with it and give us a price, I know realise from your post it might be months before I get the actual bill.

 

[Chrissyan]

GETWIRED: I realise this an electricians forum, I thought you guys would be the best people to ask, however you are looking at it from an electricians perspective. I am not an electrician, neither is my partner.

We were told all lead water pipes have been replaced, never ever realised, or understood electricity ever came in lead pipes and in addition the electrician has done a full a re-wire anyway and we also did not know that the supply cable was the property of the electricity board, and it was illegal for the electrician to touch it. If water had trickled out of the lead pipe we would have taped it up before calling the plumber back to finish the job.

The post wasn't about 'pushing the blame' but trying to get as much information as possible as I was concerned that a huge bill was heading my way I do not have the funds to pay.

Surely there cannot be that many houses with a lead electricity pipe in 2016? It is hard even to find anything about them on the net. One of the electricians who came out on the day did say that it should have been changed a long time ago due all the extra electricity used in an average house these days.

 

[Darkwood]

GETWIRED: I realise this an electricians forum, I thought you guys would be the best people to ask, however you are looking at it from an electricians perspective. I am not an electrician, neither is my partner.

We were told all lead water pipes have been replaced, never ever realised, or understood electricity ever came in lead pipes and in addition the electrician has done a full a re-wire anyway and we also did not know that the supply cable was the property of the electricity board, and it was illegal for the electrician to touch it. If water had trickled out of the lead pipe we would have taped it up before calling the plumber back to finish the job.

The post wasn't about 'pushing the blame' but trying to get as much information as possible as I was concerned that a huge bill was heading my way I do not have the funds to pay.

Surely there cannot be that many houses with a lead electricity pipe in 2016? It is hard even to find anything about them on the net. One of the electricians who came out on the day did say that it should have been changed a long time ago due all the extra electricity used in an average house these days.

The Electrician has mis-informed you here and in older installs its quite common to see lead service cables still, especially in century old terraced housing to which there are still plenty about, they are been routinely upgraded but if you find you have one then its not a big worry (unless it sticks out like a sore thumb as in your case) any deemed undersize will have been changed by now but other than than that these service lead cables are pretty robust and tend to be in good condition even after 70+ years in service, there are other methods that succeeded Lead cables that tended to corrode and degrade far quicker and can now be in quite dangerous states if still in your property, modern cables I would like to think will be good too with the test of time and should comfortably out live your life in the property.