Various bits of work needed... Various questions!

[Max Rasa]

Hi all

Sorry the title's so vague...

We'll be having some work carried out on the house electrics soon. We've got an electrician doing most of the work, although I might do some of the bits that I am allowed to. But I am also doing a lot of the planning of the work to be done by the electrician. So I just need to clarify a few things if anyone wouldn't mind pitching in?

1. How can things be left in the area above ceilings / below first floor floors, if I want to leave provision for future sockets/lights to be added after some other work has been done on the house? Can excess cable be left or are there rules against that? That would be my preference. But if not, is putting a junction box in at this stage an acceptable approach so that the new light/socket can be taken from that?

2. What are the rules for wiring in lofts? Can cable be left loose with some slack (I'll want to insulate the loft at some point and would rather the cables are on top of the insulation)? Or must they be clipped and tight?

3. Can a bathroom light be fit by a DIYer? The wiring is already there, and so is the switch (outside the room).
So it would just be putting in a new light. I know the light has to be made for bathrooms/wet areas. Just wasn't sure if it has to be an electrician who does it because of where it is.

4. Changing single sockets to doubles with a converter. Is this allowed to be done DIY? Is it as straight forward as it looks? Anything to look out for or consider?

5. I know it is not a simple single answer, but is there a general rule of thumb for maximum cable runs for mains rings (on 2.5mm) and lighting (on 1.5mm)? With lighting, is all of the wiring counted or just some?

6. Does everything have to be tip top before the electrician can issue a certificate? For example, part of the house needs to be renovated, but in the meantime it is still being used. However, the consumer unit for this part of the house is going to be changed for a more modern / safer one. But at the same time, there are some things which aren't great... Some sockets would ideally be replaced. Some flooring is up and the wiring (and junction boxes) are therefore exposed. But I see little point in addressing these things now as the renovation will start soonish and any further electrical work done now will only have to be undone then. I'm guessing that means he won't be able to "sign it off" but wasn't sure... I guess if he can't he can always sign it off when the rest of the work is finished later in the year...

Any thoughts and help most gratefully appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Markyd]

Well ...you have to trust the sparky doing the work or your using the wrong man

 

[Max Rasa]

So often it is hard to judge until AFTER the work is done though.

But the guy we have coming seems decent enough and people speak highly of him. I'm also happy to admit that I like to get involved in things and not sit back and have it done. But I'll always go with what the electrician says can/can't be done.

I just came here to clarify a few of the things I wasn't sure about ahead of his visit...

 

[Markyd]

To be honest he should involve you anyway....

 

[Squid]

Fair enough.

When we first moved in to the house things looked different then, and so was our plan on what to do with it. Back then we had some electricians come and quote for work. Each one gave a completely different opinion on what to do; right from a few bits of remedial work for much less than a grand, up to a full rewire on the old part of the house for over £3k. So sometimes it is difficult to know who to trust!

I hate dentists so I never really go... But many many years ago toothache forced me to go. I got that tooth sorted, but whilst there the dentist said I needed 2 extractions and 6 fillings. I wouldn't have done it anyhow, but when I saw what it was going to cost I definitely wasn't going back. A couple or so years later... Another toothache. Same story but this time I needed 3 extractions, 10 fillings, and a small mortgage. So again I only got the toothache sorted. A few years after that... You've guessed it - another toothache. I went to get that sorted and cringed at what I'd be told. It was a different dentist. She removed the bad tooth and said that the only other work needed was one filling. I told her the story. She said dentistry is not an exact science

Moral of the story dentists earn more than electricians.......

 

[FatAlan]

Was offered a place a Guys Hospital dental school to be a dentist. Messed my A levels up as I spent too much time studying beer, girls and playing squash. In some ways I’m glad I haven’t spent 30 years looking in people’s mouths or though I suppose £70 for 10mins descaling May change ones view.

 

[Squid]

Was offered a place a Guys Hospital dental school to be a dentist. Messed my A levels up as I spent too much time studying beer, girls and playing squash. In some ways I’m glad I haven’t spent 30 years looking in people’s mouths or though I suppose £70 for 10mins descaling May change ones view.

Must be better than crawling through a loft with a fat gut and 1980's itchy insulation, you could have retired by now with perfect teeth to the Algarve.....

 

[peterhyper]

Was offered a place a Guys Hospital dental school to be a dentist. Messed my A levels up as I spent too much time studying beer, girls and playing squash. In some ways I’m glad I haven’t spent 30 years looking in people’s mouths or though I suppose £70 for 10mins descaling May change ones view.

Do you mind me asking if you are really a fat Alan?

 

[MJPD29]

Do the chasing in yourself it isn't hard but it is time consuming and will run up.yout bill just get the spark to mark the wall where he wants it cut, And leave the rest to him. Cheapest quote is very rarely best and don't compromise your safety to save a few quid!

 

[peterhyper]

Do the chasing in yourself it isn't hard but it is time consuming and will run up.yout bill just get the spark to mark the wall where he wants it cut, And leave the rest to him. Cheapest quote is very rarely best and don't compromise your safety to save a few quid!

What an excellent suggestion, and maybe the op might even pay the lucky spark who gets this job in magic beans.

 

[Devonchris]

I hate dentists so I never really go...

Getting someone to admit diy electrics is not a good idea, and can be costly in the long term especially at house sale time, is like pulling teeth.

 

[Max Rasa]

Very good Devonchris

Forgetting my OP for a moment, I am interested to know as electricians at what point you begin to think DIYers should down their tools and butt out? Like I asked a few posts ago, do you think DIYers should go no further than changing a light bulb? I'm not challenging that idea, I'm just curious.

 

[Charlie_]

Will you be paying your electrician on a quotation basis or will he be on day rates? (day rates best for him in this instance)
I think the best option would be to do the whole job with him, working as his labourer/mate...
This way everything will be overseen by a qualified spark and you will also gain lots of knowledge along the way

 

[peterhyper]

Will you be paying your electrician on a quotation basis or will he be on day rates? (day rates best for him in this instance)
I think the best option would be to do the whole job with him, working as his labourer/mate...
This way everything will be overseen by a qualified spark and you will also gain lots of knowledge along the way

Charlie, firstly many congratulations on being the top poster of the month.

I personally wouldn't ever agree to a job where the customer wants to be my labourer.

 

[FatAlan]

Charlie, firstly many congratulations on being the top poster of the month.

I personally wouldn't ever agree to a job where the customer wants to be my labourer.

I know what you’re saying Pete. You’d certainly not want to make it common practice. It raises the whole issue over mates and apprentices and how much time supervision detracts from you doing the job and the relative costs involved. In the long run if a DIY’er wants to assist it could cost them just as much if not more as you’d have to slow down in order to check the standard of work.

 

[The Ghost]

I can appreciate that, but where would you draw the line? Sounds like somewhere between changing a light bulb and changing a wall socket?

what point you begin to think DIYers should down their tools and butt out

Ok I'll bite. So the thing is we work within a statutory and regulation type framework. It is clear that only a person who is skilled and trained should be doing electrics from that framework. That excludes you doing electrical work. When I take on a job the responsibility for the safety of the building and persons around that installation becomes my sole responsibility. Hence I would not have you doing work on my installation. It is very much a matter of the constraints of the law and regulations this mindset comes from. Personally I take that responsibility seriously and as much as I can sympathise with your "...its only a couple of wires how difficult can it be?..." approach it is not quite so simple. As stated you are jeopardising yourself, future sale of your house and compromising your insurance. Leave it to the professionals is my advice when it comes to potentially onerous consequences. That way you deal with a set of problems that apparently the average diyer is oblivious to.