Warning Watch Your Speed

[SYKRAPS]

Good Evening All,

Just a quick one that I was asked to share by a course tutor on a driver awareness course.

In my ignorance and not knowing the actual class of my vehicle and presuming that it would be the same as a car I was collared for speeding a couple of weeks ago by a stationary safety camera when I did not think I was doing anything wrong.

I thought that in a small van 'Peugeot Partner' that the speed limit on a dual carriageway 'at the national speed limit' was 70mph until I was invited to receive 3 points and a fine or attend a driver awareness course for traveling at exactly 70mph.

Most of the guys on the course were like me small van drivers who had been pulled for the same.

The trouble is that the safety cameras are basically black and white and don't exercise any form of sense as a police office may in some cases.

We were told that there are many more of these safety camera vehicles due to go into circulation this year and that if they see fit there is no % tolerance applied for instrument faults if they do not want to, this apparently varies in different regions.

In summary and wanting to save you lot the misfortune of receiving the same as I did, although I am aware that many of you do not exceed speed limits and are aware of your vehicle class the speed limits for small vans upwards if not car derived are well worth reviewing by all.

PS Most people who I spoke to thought that the speed limit for my van on a dual carriageway at the national speed limit was 70mph and not 60mph as it actually is.......................................

If this saves even 1 person a ticket I feel that it is well worth the time in posting it.

 

[shanky887614]

Good Evening All,

Just a quick one that I was asked to share by a course tutor on a driver awareness course.

In my ignorance and not knowing the actual class of my vehicle and presuming that it would be the same as a car I was collared for speeding a couple of weeks ago by a stationary safety camera when I did not think I was doing anything wrong.

I thought that in a small van 'Peugeot Partner' that the speed limit on a dual carriageway 'at the national speed limit' was 70mph until I was invited to receive 3 points and a fine or attend a driver awareness course for traveling at exactly 70mph.

Most of the guys on the course were like me small van drivers who had been pulled for the same.

The trouble is that the safety cameras are basically black and white and don't exercise any form of sense as a police office may in some cases.

We were told that there are many more of these safety camera vehicles due to go into circulation this year and that if they see fit there is no % tolerance applied for instrument faults if they do not want to, this apparently varies in different regions.

In summary and wanting to save you lot the misfortune of receiving the same as I did, although I am aware that many of you do not exceed speed limits and are aware of your vehicle class the speed limits for small vans upwards if not car derived are well worth reviewing by all.

PS Most people who I spoke to thought that the speed limit for my van on a dual carriageway at the national speed limit was 70mph and not 60mph as it actually is.......................................

If this saves even 1 person a ticket I feel that it is well worth the time in posting it.

Cars and vehicles (including car-derived vans up to 2 tonnes max laden weight)

30 (48)

60 (96)

70 (112)

70 (112)

what weight is your van? this is from the highway code

 

[dan86]

sorry to hear of your bad luck fella.
I had the misfortune years ago now to gets points with no prizes, or attend a driver awareness course (different reason to yours) I actually really enjoyed the course. the guy instructing it was a driving instructor tutor and being driven around by him was one of the most comfortable journeys I've ever had!
I consider myself a good driver (member of IAM) but this guy was fantastic

 

[SYKRAPS]

Cars and vehicles (including car-derived vans up to 2 tonnes max laden weight)

30 (48)

60 (96)

70 (112)

70 (112)

what weight is your van? this is from the highway code

We were told on the course that all vans if not car derived were classed as 2 tonne +

 

[shanky887614]

We were told on the course that all vans if not car derived were classed as 2 tonne +

if laden weight is 2 tonne then its 70 acording to higwaycode website

 

[UNG]

Cars and vehicles (including car-derived vans up to 2 tonnes max laden weight)

30 (48)

60 (96)

70 (112)

70 (112)

what weight is your van? this is from the highway code

The problem arises from the term "car derived van" a lot of the small vans these days are not derived from a car. I know of someone who got a speeding ticket in the same van and circumstances as the OP and the reason given by the police was although Peugeot do produce a car in the same shape because the van was produced and first registered before the car variant was it is not classed as a car derived van

 

[SYKRAPS]

if laden weight is 2 tonne then its 70 acording to higwaycode website

Yes but they are all classed as 2 tonne+ if not car derived we were informed if laden or not

 

[Silly Sausage]

Ey up SYKRAPS,

I'm being really thick today, are you saying a small van can only do max of 60 where a car can go 70?
Hence you being knicked?

Going to have to let my courier mate know about this!

 

[markc123]

I got told this info a few weeks ago, it's true that vans have a different speed limit to cars, unless the vans are derived from cars e.g. astravan.

Bent, agreed.

 

[ciderdaz]

I'll have to check mine. I drive a caddy, I would class it as car derived but the name caddy has been around longer than the touran (the car equivalent)

 

[sparkdog]

Very good to know that.I had no idea that there was a lower speed limit for small vans,I thought it was just for artics.

 

[markc123]

Very good to know that.I had no idea that there was a lower speed limit for small vans,I thought it was just for artics.

Same, i've known people who've been fined though aswell. The law is ridiculous, i can't understand why a small van should go any slower than a big car...guess its something to do with the goods you carry, a bigger mess could be inflicted or whatever, but you can pack just as much in an estate as a small van just about.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Call me cynical, but I suspect it's just yet another way to milk easy cash out of us mug plebs.

 

[markc123]

Aye, in the word's off glenn...

...nob'eds

 

[SYKRAPS]

Ey up SYKRAPS,

I'm being really thick today, are you saying a small van can only do max of 60 where a car can go 70?
Hence you being knicked?

Going to have to let my courier mate know about this!

Quite correct Archy on a dual carriageway 60 is the limit if the van is not car derived, 50 on a single carriageway with national speed limit signs but 70 on a motorway though.

If a van is not car derived then it is classed as light goods up to 7.5 tonnes

 

[SYKRAPS]

Like I said earlier most of the guys on the course were drivers of small vans (not car derived) that had been copped doing between 65mph and 75mph on a dual carriageway when they thought that they were ok to do so, the general census of our knowledge was that it changed around the transit van size to light goods.................our bad

 

[gigawatt]

Fair do's for posting this but this isn't anything new. been around for years. Same restrictions for anyone with a trailer too

 

[Silly Sausage]

But 70 on a motorway!
Who are these preeks that make these rules up?!?! :-------::-------::-------::-------::-------:

God knows what they have as the definition of a car derived van or whatever crap it is!
I'm emailing my mate now. Cheers S

 

[SYKRAPS]

Fair do's for posting this but this isn't anything new. been around for years. Same restrictions for anyone with a trailer too

The difference being now that most cameras are fixed with no human input to exercise some common sense, where I was copped I have passed police cars regularly going faster than 60mph in my van as I thought it was 70mph for me and have never been pulled............IMO a computer sticks to the rules 100% whereas a police officer may actually contemplate the risk if any you are taking.

You could be doing the legal 60mph weaving in and out of traffic like a loony in rush hour traffic and not get snapped by the safety camera, but then you could be the only vehicle on the road at midnight doing 66mph and get a fine....like I say JMO

 

[SYKRAPS]

But 70 on a motorway!
Who are these preeks that make these rules up?!?! :-------::-------::-------::-------::-------:

God knows what they have as the definition of a car derived van or whatever crap it is!
I'm emailing my mate now. Cheers S

No worries, I believe it is where the car came first like astra vans of fiesta vans for example. Same size as a VW Caddy but there aint a VW Caddy car so I think they are not car derived. Very confusing IMO.

 

[robbalaar86]

Yeah my company made me aware of this all lgv are restricted to 60 mph on the dual carriage ways. Also we are restricted to 50 on normal national speed limit roads.

Our vans have trackers and we get pulled in for breaking the speed limit. Most van drivers aren't aware of this.

Good post.

 

[telectrix]

as above. vans are limited to 60 on a dual cariageway as a lot of us already know, but a lesser known one is the limit of 50 on a single cariageway road where the limit for cars is 60.

 

[Tuttle]

Thanks, I didn't know that.

What about people carriers?

I think that my Hyundai iLoad is based on their people carrier, or is their people carrier based on the iLoad I don't know, but I guess I wouldn't get far with that argument as it is quite big.

 

[wackyracer]

My VW transporter has a second row of seats and is classed as a diesel car on the log book.It's over 2 ton so is it a car or a van.

 

[kingeri]

I'd just stick to the lower speed limits to be on the safe side. Bloody ludicrous laws we have.

 

[telectrix]

almost as daft as part pee.

 

[UNG]

I'd just stick to the lower speed limits to be on the safe side. Bloody ludicrous laws we have.

It's probably some EEC directive that we have been forced to bring into law

 

[Tuttle]

I'd just stick to the lower speed limits to be on the safe side. Bloody ludicrous laws we have.

Yeah, in future, I'll remember to slow down to 50 instead of 60 when I see the fuzz :auto:

 

[telectrix]

by the time you see them it's probably too late to take the phone out of your ear. put the beer down, fasten seat belt and then drop your speed to the legal limit.

 

[Tuttle]

There was a jeweler on That's Life (a long time ago now) who kept getting tickets whilst unloading his car stopped on double yellows outside his shop. So they disguised his car as a van, using a Top Gear style modification, and it solved the problem! The traffic warden totally ignored it (until they suggested that he might like to take a closer look and he discovered the ford fiesta hiding underneath).

Difficult to use that solution in this case though I guess, unless you've got some of that timelord technology!

 

[grantr37]

The problem arises from the term "car derived van" a lot of the small vans these days are not derived from a car. I know of someone who got a speeding ticket in the same van and circumstances as the OP and the reason given by the police was although Peugeot do produce a car in the same shape because the van was produced and first registered before the car variant was it is not classed as a car derived van

I would class any van, even a clio minivan, a corsa minivan or an astra minivan as just a van, as the plod can just turn around and say that if they say it is not car derived then it is not car derived.... it's like arguing if a jaffa cake is a biscuit with the vat man, it won't end in your favour....if its a van it's a Ban is all that will happen.... "3 year ban and a £5,000 fine....and in my closing statement..."....... hey its a van!! (" silence contempt of court....6 months custod....(hey no fair)....12 months ...")

 

[Barry Cade]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...fety/DG_178867 have a look at this site,I drive a VW caddy and it would appear as its not a saloon car derived van I have been breaking the law until now

 

[Barry Cade]

ciderdaz read my comment,check the link out I drive a caddy and thought it was a small van too,apparently its a transit HA!

 

[Robert Turnbull]

Dam I thought vans could do 80........

 

[Barry Cade]

only on autobahns robert

 

[grantr37]

you will see less and less minivans and car derived vans going about, they are very very(very) popular in Australia and they are (and have been for many years) getting bought up secondhand from Garages, private individuals and auctions and shipped out to Australia, a lot of the new Astravans are going over there just now as well as Dacias(europe made) that are made for there(and not offered for sale here) and there are Mitsubishi and Toyota car derived minivans being sold(made for) there....
does anybody remember Ford Sierra Minivans and pickups? or ford Escort minivans (and compact pickups) or the smaller Toyota pickups there were back in the 1980's (that would be classed as "classic collectable " Autos now) a large amount of these went to Australia, now that there is apparently no perceived market for these kind of vehicles in the UK and Europe they are no longer manufactured for/intended for sale here and all that is sold in the UK is cut down(miniaturised also with smaller engines) versions of American vehicles (referred to stateside as SUV's- Sports Utility Vehicles)

I was speaking to somebody about 6 weeks ago who goes to Australia every year and buys Ford Fiesta cars (also used to be very popular in OZ) and ships them back before stripping them to bare metal shells and fitting new engines, interior, suspension, new everything, they get converted into off road racing cars...they were run into the ground in Australia then left sitting in fields and in the dessert which means that the bodywork got preserved by the hot dry weather...



I noticed that there is a company here shipping VW Jetta and VW Passat minivans from Australia to the UK that were made in Germany specifically for the Australian market, they get them secondhand and restore them, unfortunately they are converted for show and not much use for work....they end up pimped out with ultra low profile Alloys, bright metallic paint (yellow, Orange etc) and giant fat exhausts....I seen one last summer going around, was lowered to within about 2 inches of the road, music blaring out of a big stereo, blue lights underneath, chrome all over the place etc...

 

[SYKRAPS]

I am very glad that my post has been of use to some of you guys that were of the same thoughts as myself 'before' I was caught out by my lack of knowledge.

To be fair to the course instructor he did ask us to spread the word.....................

 

[DNS1]

What absolute bull****... I never knew vans were limited in such a way...

What's really stupid is that a Transit Connect is limited to 60mph on a dual carriageway, but a Ford Tourneo, normal Transit but with seats in the back, is classed as a car so can do 70mph!

 

[robbalaar86]

It's not the 60 on dual that's the pain. When you're trying to get back for the footie and you can only do 50 on single carriage way that's the bloody killer.

 

[SYKRAPS]

What absolute bull****... I never knew vans were limited in such a way...

What's really stupid is that a Transit Connect is limited to 60mph on a dual carriageway, but a Ford Tourneo, normal Transit but with seats in the back, is classed as a car so can do 70mph!

Neither did I and it cost me a few quid not to get points on my license, hopefully the post has done you a favour.........