What are the rules on this then?

[smillsey]

Hi all,

i posted something similar in the taining section but this is a much better suited forum to post it in.

The situation :

If i hold

17th Edition
2391
2392


Now if we are installing air con units into offices etc, are we legally covered to be putting in the isolators/wiring to the fuse boards? Or will we have to get a CITB Gold card chap to do this?

In what (if any ) circumstances would a 2330 Level 3, NVQ3 electrician be legally required for this?

Is it legal to install the wiring as essentially we are air conditioning engineers, originally i was an electrical engineer and im more than happy at doing the work, but i do not want to be breaking the law.

Regards, Scott

 

[dufjax]

In commercial it's "all about the competence" (cheers Gok)
Although I would say 2330 (236 /2360) level 3 would be a advantageous I don't think Legally it's required.

What does your PL say? Does that say you can do commercial stuff?


There's a guy working around my area that's got 17th, 2360 part 1 and didn't finish Part 2.
He got kicked out of the ECA, through being a cowboy not his skills etc (I believe) He's not registered with any other the Part P schemes so doesn't (officially) do domestic. But he's got loads of work on.. and he's not the cheap either.

Jim

 

[smillsey]

Oh ok, well one of the guys do have the 2330 level 2 but to be honest looking at what he did i cant see it been worth doing myself as i will not be doing commercial electrical contract.

Although in the future i may go for a 2330 on night school. I will be part p registered for the domestic stuff soon.

I had 3 hours sleep last night, please forgive me, PL??

Thanks for the reply

 

[smillsey]

ah pl, public liability,

Well it not included but i could enquire.

 

[markythesparky]

'Legally' doesnt come into it at all. Electrical regs are not statutory.

You can install electrical installations no matter who you are as long as you do it in accordance with BS7671 and that you can show complete competence if it were to end up at court later on.

You should test all your circuits in orderto prove that what you have installed is safe and complies with those sections of the electricl regs.

 

[Risteard]

You can install electrical installations no matter who you are as long as you do it in accordance with BS7671

Again legally there is no requirement that they comply with BS7671 as it is a non-statutory document. That said, it would be quite foolish not to install to a relevant standard.

 

[dufjax]

BUT you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to comply with EAWR (Electricity At Work Regulations) and complying with BS7671 (normally) means you comply with EAWR.

Jim

 

[smillsey]

excellent, thanks guys, thats cleared it up.

I assume some sites stipulate that you are an "NICEIC approved contractor" or that you hold a jib gold card? Which at the moment would exclude me.

Scott

 

[dufjax]

excellent, thanks guys, thats cleared it up.

I assume some sites stipulate that you are an "NICEIC approved contractor" or that you hold a jib gold card? Which at the moment would exclude me.

Scott

Depends on the size of the site if it's a local builder then you might not need anything

BUT MOST sites want a JIB gold card. They're not normally worried about NIC (ECA or who ever)

Jim

 

[smillsey]

ok thanks dujfax. It will not be our main income anyway. We will be more aiming at the domestic scene. As Airconditioning will be our main market. Its just it would be a shame to waste our electrical knowledge/experience if the opurtunity arises. As in the winter, aircon work really dries up

 

[dufjax]

As in the winter, aircon work really dries up

I bet!

Tend to find most electrical work has a lull over the winter

Don't you offer good discounts, like the double glazing guys. They normally do a really good discount for winter installs.

Jim

 

[rumple2009]

the 2330 teaches the trunking, cable calculations and testing from dead to live. like others said its compentance but you find the ones who didnt go to college are the ones do it wrong . no disrespect to any one

 

[dufjax]

you find the ones who didnt go to college are the ones do it wrong .

Very true!!

Jim

 

[smillsey]

Well i will not be looking for any commercial contracts for electrical work as its out of my comfort zone and if asked would much rather send the clients to one of you guys.

Ref the cowboys, too true. Im not a time served spark and would never claim to be. Although i am a time served apprentice. I just done want to throw away money, getting sparks in to wire up simple power/control circuits.

I would never ever do any work if i wasnt 100% confident it was within spec. At the end of the day, its our reputation on the line here.

Would it be true to say a 2391 instead of the 2392 would be necessary, however as our equipment is low current well mostly low. Would the 2392 cover it? I'm not trying to get away with the minimum but i have to be realistic. A point to note is obviously some of the big systems are 3phase

I would love to go for the 2391 in the coming years, but for now, i have not got the testing experience at all.

Many thanks for your valued info guys.

dujfax - yes the prices will go down in the winter, but like you sparks. You are worth what you think you are worth.

I have a big head. So im not dropping it too much.....

haha, only joking, but i cant justify working for nothing.

i dont understand these courses either who offer a "become an electrician in 10 days"

They should be at least aimed at people who are electrical engineers/tradesman who are looking for a different area to work in. Not a office clerk who thinks that he can become an engineer in 2 weeks... its dangerous, but hey im repeating what many of you on here are saying.

But to do these courses then it really should be a requirement to have experience/previous quals in electrical blah blah. I openly will amdmit im not an electrician in the sense you guys are....

But i do apreciate and understand through experience of things like , heat diisipation of cable, depending on what insulation they have and WHY they get hot, how many cables are in the trunking, where there are mounted, why type of trunking...., i cant see a 2 week course will teach WHY all of the safety considerations you guys have to adhere to are for a reason! Not because napit/nic say so!

Sorry i digress.

 

[rumple2009]

you can diagree as much as you like but the facts remains is that you havent had the training as qualified electricains and thge 2392 is testing for BEGININGS and coveres nothing at all in the real world the course is to mnake you adware of testing i.e the cable calculations likeyou ring main. i aint saying all electricains are perfect but they passed theh course and train ing for a reason .