What code for all CPC's chopped off on lights?

[HappyHippyDad]

I have just completed an EICR.

All the earths have been chopped off in the ceiling roses and switches on the lighting circuit. There are no class 2 fittings.

Usually if there are no earths on the lights and no class 2 fittings then it will be a C3. However, the lighting circuit does have CPC's they have just not been connected anywhere. Would this be a C2 as Zs will be greater than the maximum? Also, how does this relate to RCD protection? There is RCD protection on everything but with the Zs on the lights being non existent the RCD will not trip with an earth fault (especially in relation to the bathroom).

Cheers guys.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

C2. If a fault occurs its dangerous.

 

[Strima]

C2.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Not a big fan of earths being cut out

Poor workmanship imo

 

[Risteard]

I presume you mean no Class I luminaires?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

C3.
RCD will still operate.

 

[Electric Magic]

Contra Spin, C2. RCD will operate, but not until someone or something with a path to earth touches the live metal part to create a circuit. Great that an RCD (theoretically) shuts off the circuit quick enough that the shock won't interrupt the fibrillations of your heart, better though when it shuts the circuit off without a human conductor.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I presume you mean no Class I luminaires?

Yes,

 

[Strima]

As the CPCs have been chopped out this goes against the original design of the circuit.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Wait, so we can apply a code C3 for lighting circuits that have no CPC at all, but it’s C2 if the unused CPCs have been cut off, rather than terminated in a parking terminal?
Questions that should be asked:
It’s not dangerous, there’s no live parts that can be touched, and it’s not potentially dangerous because there are no exposed-conductive-parts that could become live under fault conditions.
Yes improvement is required in order to comply with BS7671 which requires a CPC, in case someone decides to install class 1 fittings or accessories.

 

[Electric Magic]

Apologies Spin you're correct, didn't realise HHD meant there were no class 1 fittings when he said there were no class 2 fittings in the opening post.

 

[telectrix]

a c3 and sack the w4anker that installed it.

 

[TJ Anderson]

As the CPCs have been chopped out this goes against the original design of the circuit.

I think we can safely say this was a "fly by the seat of your pants install" with no design at all

 

[davesparks]

No CPC is a C2

 

[Nigel]

Is the CPC continuous throughout the circuit?

 

[Intoelectrics]

No CPC is a C2

If the cpc is connected at the ccu but not at each class 2 (as there is no requirement) accessory then would that still be determined as no cpc? The circuit would still have a cpc, no?

 

[robd]

C2 for me ESP if there are any fittings which aren't double insulated.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I have seen brand spanking new builds where the sparks have simply bent back and cut the cpc extremely short where class II fittings are fitted , just taking the lives and N into the light

I tend to sleeve the cpc and coil it up like a snake leaving it long incase the home owner changes the light

 

[robd]

Yes but in the original post if I understood correctly by cutting the earths they were then not taking an earth round the circuit to each point, compared to what you are saying where the earth is there but just not connected

 

[Dustydazzler]

OP have you checked to see if the cpc is connected at the fuse box ? Or has that been cut short as well ?

 

[Risteard]

If the cpc is connected at the ccu but not at each class 2 (as there is no requirement) accessory then would that still be determined as no cpc? The circuit would still have a cpc, no?

The requirement is not that a cpc be present for every circuit. It is that a cpc be run to and terminated at each point in the wiring. This is quite a different thing. So in no way could it be said that you have a cpc at each point in the wiring.

(In fact, it doesn't have to derive from the same circuit - think of containment.)

 

[davesparks]

If the cpc is connected at the ccu but not at each class 2 (as there is no requirement) accessory then would that still be determined as no cpc? The circuit would still have a cpc, no?

If the cpc is connected throughout the circuit so that it is present at every point then no it wouldn't be a C2, but I have read the OP as meaning that the cpc has been cut out of both ends of every cable leaving the circuit with no CPC at any points.

 

[suffolkspark]

are the switch back boxes metal with metal screw lugs? if the cpcs don't make it that far id defo C2 it

 

[Intoelectrics]

If the cpc is connected throughout the circuit so that it is present at every point then no it wouldn't be a C2, but I have read the OP as meaning that the cpc has been cut out of both ends of every cable leaving the circuit with no CPC at any points.

Yes, my bad, I hadn't fully read the OP, my apologies.

 

[Norah Nabino]

Is the CPC continuous throughout the circuit?

If it is not connected, how can it be continuous? ?

 

[dksanders]

C3.
RCD will still operate.

RCDs can fail. C2

 

[Deleted member 26818]

RCDs can fail. C2

Yes RCDs can fail, but not because there’s no CPC.

 

[DefyG]

Surely if carrying out an EICR the RCD'(s) shall be tested, and if they pass at that point the argument as to whether they can fail or not is irrelevant as far as the OP's question is concerned!

Reading previous posts it would seem that the continuity of the cpc is unclear therefore I would give a FI (Further Investigation)

 

[dksanders]

Yes RCDs can fail, but not because there’s no CPC.

Didn't say that, they can just fail. There's too much reliance on the fact that a circuit is protected by an RCD so therefore a lot of crap situations are tolerated because of the RCD. However, like any other device the RCD can fail and not operate as intended under fault conditions.