What is wrong with this board

[happysteve]

Only trainies post please.

Why is this installed wrong?

Turn on either RCD and it will make the busbar live. You'll have neutrals on two separate RCDs but only one line, so chances are one (or both) RCDs will trip as there will be an imbalance when you connect up the MCBs and circuits.

Even if you sorted that out by snipping the busbar, it's not a good design as it would not be clear which MCB was on which RCD - so move the left hand RCD over to the right. L and N are on different terminals on the two RCDs - don't suppose this matters electrically, but it's not good practice, surely.

Also, the cables are a bit long.

Cheers for posting this up

 

[shanky887614]

Turn on either RCD and it will make the busbar live. You'll have neutrals on two separate RCDs but only one line, so chances are one (or both) RCDs will trip as there will be an imbalance when you connect up the MCBs and circuits.

Even if you sorted that out by snipping the busbar, it's not a good design as it would not be clear which MCB was on which RCD - so move the left hand RCD over to the right. L and N are on different terminals on the two RCDs - don't suppose this matters electrically, but it's not good practice, surely.

Also, the cables are a bit long.

Cheers for posting this up

Hey don't slag the work off he was in the paper after he got apprentice of the year!!!

 

[happysteve]

OK, trainees. just to make up for my earlier blunder, have a look at this and tell me how many faults you can see.

View attachment 25431

Your later post states that the incomer is bottom right. It's not really clear what the intention of this circuit is - possibly straight out to the centre SWA (with no isolation), via switch to the larger diameter left hand SWA, and also via the meter to the 2x13A sockets?

So, roughly in order of my perceived seriousness (please comment!)

1. Exposed live terminals (L and N) on the switch (which we will come back to later).
2. No continuity of Earth.
3. (Related to 2) incorrect termination of SWA, particularly the armour - should be glanded. On two of the SWAs, not glanded/terminated at all, on the third it is incorrectly terminated to an earthing terminal, to which there are no other connections.
4. No means of isolation for a circuit that is clearly intended to be able to be isolated, as switch is bypassed.
5. 13A sockets not RCD protected (outside)
6. Inappropriate materials for 2x13A sockets (rusted, so not intended for use in this environment).
7. Assuming this is accessible to unskilled/unsupervised persons, single insulated cables should not be used (ends of the SWA, the ends of the T&E, and most likely all that red cable too).
8. Is that board alright? Looks like chipboard that's decomposing, does it have enough mechanical integrity to support the cables and fixtures? (I assume so as you've re-used it!)
9. Incorrect colour cable used for neutral (red instead of black).
EDIT: 9b. Cables should be clipped/supported.
10. Incorrect clips used on red cable going into bottom of (bypassed) switch.

Unclear if the SWA on the ground (yellow tape on one end) is an off-cut or is in some way connected...

Cheers for posting this

 

[dazza1981]

and this is after i'd had my grubby mitts round it for the best part of 2 hours, including smoke breaks.

View attachment 25432

Tel your getting the hang of this electrical lark now aint you mate !!!! lol

 

[telectrix]

Turn on either RCD and it will make the busbar live. You'll have neutrals on two separate RCDs but only one line, so chances are one (or both) RCDs will trip as there will be an imbalance when you connect up the MCBs and circuits.

Even if you sorted that out by snipping the busbar, it's not a good design as it would not be clear which MCB was on which RCD - so move the left hand RCD over to the right. L and N are on different terminals on the two RCDs - don't suppose this matters electrically, but it's not good practice, surely.

Also, the cables are a bit long.

Cheers for posting this up

good answer, only thing is you can't easily move the left RCD as it has a solid N link to the N bar. you can see the bare copper below the RCD.

 

[happysteve]

good answer, only thing is you can't easily move the left RCD as it has a solid N link to the N bar. you can see the bare copper below the RCD.

Ooh, good point! Hadn't spotted that. Alright... move the right hand RCD over to the left; split the busbar to the left of this (i.e. to the left of the right hand RCD, which would now be roughly in the middle of the DIN rail).

 

[telectrix]

Your later post states that the incomer is bottom right. It's not really clear what the intention of this circuit is - possibly straight out to the centre SWA (with no isolation), via switch to the larger diameter left hand SWA, and also via the meter to the 2x13A sockets?

So, roughly in order of my perceived seriousness (please comment!)

1. Exposed live terminals (L and N) on the switch (which we will come back to later).
2. No continuity of Earth.
3. (Related to 2) incorrect termination of SWA, particularly the armour - should be glanded. On two of the SWAs, not glanded/terminated at all, on the third it is incorrectly terminated to an earthing terminal, to which there are no other connections.
4. No means of isolation for a circuit that is clearly intended to be able to be isolated, as switch is bypassed.
5. 13A sockets not RCD protected (outside)
6. Inappropriate materials for 2x13A sockets (rusted, so not intended for use in this environment).
7. Assuming this is accessible to unskilled/unsupervised persons, single insulated cables should not be used (ends of the SWA, the ends of the T&E, and most likely all that red cable too).
8. Is that board alright? Looks like chipboard that's decomposing, does it have enough mechanical integrity to support the cables and fixtures? (I assume so as you've re-used it!)
9. Incorrect colour cable used for neutral (red instead of black).
EDIT: 9b. Cables should be clipped/supported.
10. Incorrect clips used on red cable going into bottom of (bypassed) switch.

Unclear if the SWA on the ground (yellow tape on one end) is an off-cut or is in some way connected...

Cheers for posting this

another good answer there.

the 2 bottom SWA cables are feed in and looped out. the socket was connected directly to these with that 2.5 T/E. the larger SWA was from the meter to street lighting ( park homes site). the by-passed switch at the top is actually a RCD.

and, archy, the meter is a private one and no longer required as the cubicle was fitted with a padlock after i finished, so ner,ner.

 

[happysteve]

another good answer there.

the 2 bottom SWA cables are feed in and looped out. the socket was connected directly to these with that 2.5 T/E. the larger SWA was from the meter to street lighting ( park homes site). the by-passed switch at the top is actually a RCD.

and, archy, the meter is a private one and no longer required as the cubicle was fitted with a padlock after i finished, so ner,ner.

Ha! I almost asked, "Is that on a caravan site?"!

Thanks for the feedback. So I missed "cable CSA reduced without fusing down" (assuming the upstream fuse protecting the incoming SWA was set for that, rather than 2.5mm T&E). Should have spotted that.

Cheers!

 

[telectrix]

Ooh, good point! Hadn't spotted that. Alright... move the right hand RCD over to the left; split the busbar to the left of this (i.e. to the left of the right hand RCD, which would now be roughly in the middle of the DIN rail).

i see your point, but once the labels are fitted, it would be clear which MCBs are on which RCD. agree though that it's not a particularly good design. having said that, schneider CUs have the L and N reversed on the main switch with the busbar cranked behind the N terminal. easy to get polarity wrong with the incomer tails if you're not careful.

 

[telectrix]

deleted

 

[telectrix]

Tel your getting the hang of this electrical lark now aint you mate !!!! lol

cheeky bugger. i'll put you in the cage with GMES. that'll make your eyes water. lol.