What now for Scotland?

[Des 56]

Scotland was in essence a nation a thousand years before England could be described as such
If the Scottish people decide to go their own way,so be it

I am a little puzzled why English people feel that a call by Scottish people for self determination is greeted with a view often expressed that they somehow have to justify economically why they should do so
It sometimes makes me feel that the motive may be loss of benefits, rather than any concerns about thier ability to self govern

If Scotland wanted independance,let it be so,but in that case the union would be finished and all the countries should self determine and go their own ways
England and the English peoples need to have more confidence in being able to be alone, instead of throwing up its arms at the prospect of losing a long time partner

 

[Adam W]

... So this is all about oil then.
Oil and greed.

 

[pushrod]

I think America is strong because it is united. California could easily go it alone - it would be the 8th largest economy in the world if it was by itself. I do think that some times that some of the national pride can be a bit small minded and petty in the grand scheme of things. Scotland has been a very important part of the UK, just a small example of that is the number of prime ministers it has provided. It is a shame that things like that and the union are not celebrated. There is a strong chance that the baby will end up being thrown out with the dishwater. Are we all going to end up as small insignificant countries with masses of duplication of bureaucracy. Although i am proud of my roots i was pleased, in 2004, when the North East of England voted massively in favour of kicking out plans for a huge regional assembly.

An interesting point, similar to Des, If one country leaves the union it effectively breaks it up for all - so should all 4 countries get a say if any one country wants to go it alone?

 

[paturback]

United we stand divided we fall become a Roman and Divide and Rule!

 

[millwall ken]

Scotland was in essence a nation a thousand years before England could be described as such

How the hell do you reckon on that mate??? Scotland was a nation of feuding clans even up to the 16th century. By this time England had an established monarchy, standing army, taxation, Parliament etc etc and was on its way to being the supreme power in Europe.

 

[Des 56]

Well mate

Begin in the first century when the very first settlers/conquerers who were to become the English had another eight centuries or more lliving on continental Europe never mind being a united independant country

Even during the Roman conquest of Britain, the land now called Scotland was, although ruled by many clan chiefs, a land that was united in its independance from the Roman empire, and as I said, in essence an independant country

Here is an interesting quote from an historical article
King Donald II was the first man to have been called rí Alban (i.e. King of Alba), when he died at Dunnottar in 900.[3] This meant king of Caledonia or Scotland

England and its people are, in historical terms ,relatively young when compared to ruling tribes that made up the Celtic clans

Scotland was an area of land that ruled itself one way or another for at least a 1000 years before England as such existed

These are probable historical facts,just to counter the English nationalist claims that you made,(supreme power in Europe)

Historical truths or not,what right has anyone who is not a Scottish person, the right to deny them whatever self determination they choose to have

The post is full of that terrible percieved arrogance English people are known for, rightly or wrong, that only they have authority over these lands

Even though it is the dominant and major player it has no more right to dictate to Scotland than the Scots have to Wales or N/Ireland

If there ever was a supreme power in Europe,it was when the country was "as one" with the other home countries

I think the union will continue for many many years to come,with power devolved away from London
I do however believe that any country,England included, are part of this whole UK country only whilst that is what its people desire, and no longer, if it decides to go its own way, with no interferece from any of its partners

 

[mayfair]

Thought it stilll was a nation of feuding clans. lol

How the hell do you reckon on that mate??? Scotland was a nation of feuding clans even up to the 16th century.

 

[Adam W]

Couldn't resist...
[video=youtube;VsL3QkA97nE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsL3QkA97nE[/video]

 

[millwall ken]

Thought it stilll was a nation of feuding clans. lol

Yer mate, but now the rivalry of the clans has been replaced by the bigotry of religion.

 

[millwall ken]

Well mate

Begin in the first century when the very first settlers/conquerers who were to become the English had another eight centuries or more lliving on continental Europe never mind being a united independant country

Even during the Roman conquest of Britain, the land now called Scotland was, although ruled by many clan chiefs, a land that was united in its independance from the Roman empire, and as I said, in essence an independant country

Here is an interesting quote from an historical article
King Donald II was the first man to have been called rí Alban (i.e. King of Alba), when he died at Dunnottar in 900.[3] This meant king of Caledonia or Scotland

England and its people are, in historical terms ,relatively young when compared to ruling tribes that made up the Celtic clans

Scotland was an area of land that ruled itself one way or another for at least a 1000 years before England as such existed

These are probable historical facts,just to counter the English nationalist claims that you made,(supreme power in Europe)

Historical truths or not,what right has anyone who is not a Scottish person, the right to deny them whatever self determination they choose to have

The post is full of that terrible percieved arrogance English people are known for, rightly or wrong, that only they have authority over these lands

Even though it is the dominant and major player it has no more right to dictate to Scotland than the Scots have to Wales or N/Ireland

If there ever was a supreme power in Europe,it was when the country was "as one" with the other home countries

I think the union will continue for many many years to come,with power devolved away from London
I do however believe that any country,England included, are part of this whole UK country only whilst that is what its people desire, and no longer, if it decides to go its own way, with no interferece from any of its partners

Okay fair point mate, but I still believe that Scotland should remain part of the Union and I always will do. But I think that you will find that England WAS the dominate power in Europe long before the establishment of the Union.

 

[alarm man]

the problem with england is it is ran from the south,in my opinion people in the north(depends how you class north) are so different from the south,i find the south a different country,this is probably unique in the uk,as say the usa see themselves as american's no matter whey they are in such a huge country,we class ourselves as english/welsh/scottish/irish/n irish,then you get a regional identity im a geordie/scouser/manc/cockney/brummie thats unique to england as the scots/irish and welsh see themselves as one identity england has many,and those will associate themselves to any member of the union,i find the north east lends itself more to scotland and ireland than england as around 70% have scottish/irish roots..the further south/central its english you then get welsh to the west of england,irish to the north west,a good marker is england games and look at the flags its mainly south/central england

 

[baldelectrician]

the problem with england is it is ran from the south,in my opinion people in the north(depends how you class north) are so different from the south,i find the south a different country,this is probably unique in the uk,as say the usa see themselves as american's no matter whey they are in such a huge country,we class ourselves as english/welsh/scottish/irish/n irish,then you get a regional identity im a geordie/scouser/manc/cockney/brummie thats unique to england as the scots/irish and welsh see themselves as one identity england has many,and those will associate themselves to any member of the union,i find the north east lends itself more to scotland and ireland than england as around 70% have scottish/irish roots..the further south/central its english you then get welsh to the west of england,irish to the north west,a good marker is england games and look at the flags its mainly south/central england

I agree.
I was working in a ladys house today- she came from NW England and we were discussing the election and stuff the Scotland / England thing
She said the same- in Scotland she noticed that everyone in Scotland sees themselves as Scots, whilst (in her opinion) people in England see themselves as Northerners / Southerners (as well as English).

 

[malcolmsanford]

Think America maybe a poor analogy of united. All 50 States have literally their own tax raising levies, sales tax for instance can vary from State to State.

Many States even introduce State laws and there is quite a rivalry between State and Federal. You go south of Washington DC it is another country, and it was until 1665, Texas still considers itself to be a country on it's own.

All American without exception think of themselves as immigrants and proudly do so, they are African/American, Irish/ American, just go to Boston on St Paddy's day and you will see how "Irish" it is, and now you have Asian/American.

I'm not a great lover of the American system in all honesty, I think they have many many problems due to their liberal amalglamtion. You have the a much more radical sect in middle/south than some islamic extremist, before 2001 the worse terrorist act on American soil was commited by a Christian sect in Oaklahoma.

The south still today want more independance and less Federal intervention, they say that us Englsh and Scots/Irish/Welsh have differences, it is nothing compared to the North/South divide there.

I have a great deal of respect for America, I rather have them as a super power in my lifetime than the USSR, and now China, but it will change. I personally don't want us going down the American route of the united states of Britain, I think our union as stood the test of time well and of course should evolve, but I think every country in our union as it's part to play ...........and hope that we can keep a union of some sorts, after all when it boils down to it all, it is US against the rest.

 

[DurhamSparky]

Don't really care...!! if Scotland want to be independent so be it!!! just dont come crawling when you need to borrow money from the IMF like other nations...!

 

[alarm man]

Don't really care...!! if Scotland want to be independent so be it!!! just dont come crawling when you need to borrow money from the IMF like other nations...!

and i thought the uk was united..

 

[millwall ken]

Don't really care...!! if Scotland want to be independent so be it!!! just dont come crawling when you need to borrow money from the IMF like other nations...!

Durham mate, as an Englishman I can understand your sentiment but disagree with you on this fella. However I notice that it was a Welshman (Des) who had to take up the sword in defence of Scottish Independence - obviously most of the Scots on this forum are in favour of the Union. Thank God.

 

[alarm man]

hadrian only built a dry stone wall.anyone want to help shift it a few miles south? will be a doddle with a few lads on the job,union labour of course,good rates,loads of overtime..

 

[millwall ken]

hadrian only built a dry stone wall.anyone want to help shift it a few miles south? will be a doddle with a few lads on the job,union labour of course,good rates,loads of overtime..

WHAT????????? And steal some of God's sacred soil. Not while I have my Bow and Pike.

 

[alarm man]

WHAT????????? And steal some of God's sacred soil. Not while I have my Bow and Pike.

nah thats geordie land not english land..

 

[millwall ken]

nah thats geordie land not english land..

Or as us Cockney's call 'em 'Jocks with the **** kicked outta 'em'. Go easy boys, I didn't invent it.....

 

[alarm man]

Or as us Cockney's call 'em 'Jocks with the **** kicked outta 'em'. Go easy boys, I didn't invent it.....

we are the first line of defence for scotland from the cockney invaders...

 

[millwall ken]

we are the first line of defence for scotland from the cockney invaders...

Lol, fair one fella. However no doubt my inbox will be full by morning with death threats...

 

[alarm man]

Lol, fair one fella. However no doubt my inbox will be full by morning with death threats...

thats media hype man...

 

[millwall ken]

thats media hype man...

To be honest mate, a good pal of mine is a Geordie, and a typical one to boot - 6'6, built like the preverbial s*** house, and owns two shirts in his life; Newcastle strip home and away. He's pub trick is that he uses the top of my head to rest his pint on. Although the pork scratchings always fall off.

 

[alarm man]

To be honest mate, a good pal of mine is a Geordie, and a typical one to boot - 6'6, built like the preverbial s*** house, and owns two shirts in his life; Newcastle strip home and away. He's pub trick is that he uses the top of my head to rest his pint on. Although the pork scratchings always fall off.

if he hasnt got a flat cap and a whippet and searching for sea coal he aint no geordie,and no we cant see in front of our noses for coal dust..despite having the best coastal and countryside in scotland thats the north east coast up to scotland..

 

[DurhamSparky]

North East Coastline!!! how i love not been a southern cockney fairy...!!!

Flat Cap , Whippet and Coal....!!!

our black beaches are now sparkly yellow and our shores have blue flags...!! hmmm go back 15-20 years ago and was such a different story!!! long live regeneration...!

p.s not seen sea coal fro ages...!

 

[millwall ken]

North East Coastline!!! how i love not been a southern cockney fairy...!!!

Flat Cap , Whippet and Coal....!!!

Unfortunately all the sea coal is now gone thanks to a regeneration scheme over the last 15 Years....!! black dust and sand shall never be forgotten!!

Yep, and lets all blame the evil Cockney *******s. Because we all know that they are all evil Tory bankers... The B*******

 

[DurhamSparky]

could not agree any more!!! nice of a cockney to be so upfront and honest!!

 

[alarm man]

agree,cockneys be afraid the geordies are coming..

 

[millwall ken]

could not agree any more!!! nice of a cockney to be so upfront and honest!!

I think you're find that us Londoners are if nothing else honest, Has colour TV reached your province yet?

 

[Des 56]

Durham mate, as an Englishman I can understand your sentiment but disagree with you on this fella. However I notice that it was a Welshman (Des) who had to take up the sword in defence of Scottish Independence - obviously most of the Scots on this forum are in favour of the Union. Thank God.

Ken
I would be honoured to have that acolade about the sword if it were correct,so I'm sorry, but I will have to return the title for some real life Scot to take up
I neither agree or dis agree about whatever country decides to go on their merry way
I do believe they have the right to decide that subject alone and without any arm twisting by us others

I also think its very unlikely that the union will split,theres too much inter breeding and culture sharing,which as gone on for so long that we are none of us thoroughbred this or that
Location is nationality more than whats in the genes

 

[DurhamSparky]

I think you're find that us Londoners are if nothing else honest, Has colour TV reached your province yet?

just recently got Gas...!! whats a TV

 

[millwall ken]

just recently got Gas...!! whats a TV

Oh don't worry about what a TV is mate, its a box that when plugged into your electrical system projects moving images onto the front of the box (whats called the screen), anyway this magical box is nothing more than the curse of the modern family. In the same way that a wedding ring makes your wife fat and lazy, this so-called magical box does the same thing but makes them lippy (gobby, rude, mouthy) as well. You're better off without one come to think of it.