View the thread, titled "What panels are best value" which is posted in Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum on Electricians Forums.

unfortunately though your example takes the most expensive panels on the market, and I find it hard to justify those to my customers. However, I do prefer quality so I go for branded gear such as samsung, bosch or schott. I don't know how they compare in your examples to your chinese cheapy chappies
 
Why is my posting from yesterday "bunkum"?

In my example, I have shown that - compared to Japanese panels - even if cheaper Chinese panels turn out to be 20% lower output than what they're supposed to achieve (e.g. only managing 200W from a 250W panel) and that the panels were found to degrade at a five-times-faster-than-promised rate, yet they could still be as economical to purchase as Japanese panels on a £earned for every £cost basis.

Buy cheap, buy twice?
Maybe - but my Chinese panels only cost half of what Sanyo panels would cost, so I can afford to replace my panels after about ten years with whatever I choose and still be no worse off than having purchased Sanyo. In addition, in ten years time, I would expect solar panels to be cheaper and/or much more efficient, so I could probably get a replacement set of Sanyo panels for the same cost as a set of Chinese panels would cost today.

Ok, sorry I can see now you were trying to make a serious point.

But if you panels are dropping by 5% per year in twenty years they will be dead as the proverbial.

It still doesnt get to the crux of the reason for the post. MCS approved panels have to meet the same performance guarantees.

So if it was that simple shouldn't everyone just buy the cheapest panels they can get their hands on.

I have read all the advice about using reputable installers. How does a reputable installer know what the best panels are? I have seen posts saying avoid the cheap Chinese rubbish and others saying there not all rubbish but no names.

Come on lets tell it how it is. The installers who are saying I wouldnt use these panels are basing that argument on what? Is it they have tried them? If not they are not qualified to comment, If they have tried them then which panels and what was crap about them?
 
ok, yingli are ok, suntec ok but IMHO not as well made as samsung, bosch or schott. Sanyo are jus beautifully engineered, but I still find the cost hard to justify unless you are pushed for space.
 
But if you panels are dropping by 5% per year in twenty years they will be dead as the proverbial.

Well, I assumed that it would be a "cooling curve" type of failure rate, where a certain percentage of the remaining cells failed each year. It's kind of like a "half-life" when used to describe the decay of a radioactive substance; it takes as long to go from 100 functional cells to 50 functional cells as it does to go from 50 functional cells to 25 functional cells.

This "cooling curve" style of degradation would be consistent with Sanyo and Sharp's claim of maintaining at least 90% performance after 10 years and 80% performance after 25 years; it takes 10 years to lose the first 10% and then takes another 15 years to lose another 10%.

But it might well turn out to be an unexpected rate of decline in performance; linear, logarithmic or exponential. We'll have to wait a couple of decades to find out.

.
 
The latest Suntech 250W Solar panels are excellent value.
They have a panel tolerance of + 0 - 5%, compared with 0 - 10% for the Sanyo HITS.
They are well made, have an excellent warranty, outperform Sanyo Hits in low light conditions but not bright sunlight, where Sanyo hits outperform Suntechs by 12-25% dependent on conditions. If your roof is small, money is no object and you want to optimise generation capacity and pay a 40-55% premium on your system installation costs go for Sanyo Hits.
If your roof can accomodate larger solar panels and generate sufficient capacity for your requirements, go for a cheaper high quality alternative i.e Suntech, Samsung, Rec, Bosch or alternative.
Sanyo HIT's come into their own on clear bright blue sky sunny days.
Then they kick the preverbial a**, outperforming Suntechs by 20-25%.
When cloudy or partially cloudy days return and the light conditions are less favourable, Suntechs come into their own and outperform the Sanyo Hit's clawing back their numerical gains obtained in favourable conditions.
Early research has shown that Sanyo Hit's are likely to generate 15-20% more energy than Suntechs in many parts of mainland UK. If I lived in Scotland, I wouldn't be buying Sanyo HIT's unless my roof was small and I wanted to maximise annual generation capacity by 15-20%.
Conversly, if I lived in Cornwall would I buy Sanyo HIT's?.
Yes, If I was happy paying a 40-55% premium on my system for a 15-20% gain in power on current market prices.
The only time to do that would be on a small roof with limited space when you absolutely need to generate extra energy.
Economically it doesn't make sense to buy Sanyo HITS over a 25 year period if space isn't limited.
Hopefully in future the solar markets obsession with Sanyo HIT's will diminish and their price will reduce to more sensible levels. I personally would buy Sanyo HITS in the UK if roof space wasn't limited, if their panel prices reduced by 20 - 25 % on current market levels because they are a good product.
Hopefully Panasonics recent aquisition of Sanyo will make their Solar business more efficient and price competitive.

Suntech are the largest solar manufacturer in the world who make 1 in 10 of every solar panels sold.

Suntech Solar Panel Manufacturing Facility:

Suntech Power: How Suntech Photovoltaic Cells and Modules are Made (English Version) - YouTube

Video On How Solar Panels Are Made:

h**p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT2mHD53wqQ

Before people get hung up on what panels they buy, they should be asking more important questions like?
What orientation is my house- how close to due South am I and if I am not how will that affect the generation output I can achieve?
What is the inclination of my roof?
30 Degrees is ideal. If your roof is shallower or steeper, your ability to generate energy will be affected.
How does shading affect my roof?
If your system is affected by shade you need to make sure your system is properly designed with the right inverters, accomodating the correct number of solar strings etc.
Shade on a few panels can cause the whole system to generate less average power unless the system is designed
to optimise overall generation.
Solar edge with individual microinverters under the solar panels is effective in shady conditions, as well as roofs
with multiple orientations and strings.

How efficient is the Solar Inverter when combined with the Solar Panels chosen and the specific design of the system?
Is it Transformerless and more efficient at 96- 97% or less efficient and a high frequency transformer at 94% with the benefit of galvanic isolation (AC and DC are permanently isolated from one another by the transformer).
% quoted above are for SMA inverters.

How much power does your chosen Solar Inverter use at night while on standby? 0.5W or 1W or more.

Will your chosen inverters be easy to monitor using the internet or will you have to buy expensive monitors
to keep an eye on its performance?

How good a warranty will the inverter have?
Solar Edge - 12 years.
SMA - 5 years.

Their are many questions to ask depending on your individual requirements before taking the solar plunge.
Dont rush into any decision you make, do your homework before getting a solar salesman round.
Get quotes from many solar installers.
Do research on the company you've chosen- Are they a member of REA, so when you hand them a deposit and they go bankrupt you will get it back.

If you cant afford to loose the deposit or any money paid to the company if they went bankrupt, pay for the installation on your credit card at a 2.5% charge. Your credit card insurance will cover you.

NB: Before the Scaffolders arrive to install your solar system, have you checked with your Home insurers regarding liability for any accidents?

Are the Solar installers MCS acredited-- No Fits if they are not!

Do they have public liability insurance for their workers in case one falls off the roof, or through it?

Once the system is installed- Have you told your House Insurers that you've got a solar system on the roof and asked them to include it in your Buildings insurance?

Hope the above is of some use to anyone considering solar out there.
 
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Photon often have bench test result comparisons for modules, not always the most reliable source in terms of their test methods but might give you some side-by-side spec's to consider.
 
Also, as has been said already, being a Chinese manufacturer does not automatically mean that corners are cut or that an inferior product is the default position. A good indicator to look out for, in terms of the "quality" of the manufacturer, is the presence of OHSAS18001 accreditation. This is a level of certification related to the manufacturer's investment in how they look after their workforce and how they manage their production environment (occupational health & safety basically) and it isn't cheap for the manufacturer to obtain or maintain.
 
ok, yingli are ok, suntec ok but IMHO not as well made as samsung, bosch or schott. Sanyo are jus beautifully engineered, but I still find the cost hard to justify unless you are pushed for space.

We have installed Sharp - Samsung - Sanyo - Trina - Perlight - yingli - suntech

Best build quailty

Sanyo
Samsung
yingli
Suntech
Trina
Sharp

Best on paper

Sanyo
Yingli
Samsung
Suntech
Sharp - Trina

Best ROI according to SAP

yingli
Sharp
trina
samsung
suntech
Sanyo

I would go for yingli 21p rate , sanyo forget them

Yingli 265 16% according to SMA sunny design will yeild 3600 kwh south facing
and 3000kwh east /west so at our install prices that would give a ROI of 14% at 21p

Although Samsung have kicked --- with solar edge over the last 12 mths
 
Best on paper

Sanyo
Yingli
Samsung
Suntech
Sharp - Trina

Best ROI according to SAP

yingli
Sharp
trina
samsung
suntech
Sanyo

I'm interested to know how you came to those figures. Yingli and Samsung better on paper than Suntech? By what measure?

Presumably ROI according to SAP is based entirely on price of panel? You must be getting some good deals on Samsung and Yingli to be getting them in that order.
 
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Anyone used Jetion ? They have a 12 year product warranty, I feel with longer payback customers need the confidence of these warranties. They are priced around the same as Yingli..
 
We have installed Sharp - Samsung - Sanyo - Trina - Perlight - yingli - suntech

Best build quailty

Sanyo
Samsung
yingli
Suntech
Trina
Sharp

Best on paper

Sanyo
Yingli
Samsung
Suntech
Sharp - Trina

Best ROI according to SAP

yingli
Sharp
trina
samsung
suntech
Sanyo

I wouldnt agree with your solar photovoltaic ranking analysis above.
Yingli and Samsung are not preferable to the latest monocrystallines from Suntech.
Suntech are the largest solar panel manufacturer in the world and have economies of scale greater than Samsung.
Suntech Panels are made to higher quality standards than Samsungs overall.
Samsungs are ideal for installers wanting to maximise profit, at the expense of quality and warranty considerations.
Good for the installer, not necessarily for the consumer.
 

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