What percentage of Sparks voted Brexit?

[Darkwood]

A post was made that suggested only brexiteers were duped with lies and misinformation.
Let's just make a few clear points about remain camps attempts including national governmental bodies who should remain impartial to the vote.

-The public purse was raided of 10million pound for a pro-EU leaflet campaign.
(Reality Brexit campaign get found guilty of overspending of half a million on the campaign budget of 7 million, remain campaign remain silent throughout as they really have no grounds to complain given the extra monies pumped into remain campaign through the back doors by the likes of Soros etc and no mention of the 10million above)
-Obama declared the UK would be at the back of the queue if we voted Brexit even though he would not be in office thus has no grounds to make such claims (how did that work out )

-Cameron claims brexit could lead to Europe declining into war, there is no evidence to suggest such and is based on nothing more than historical values in times when many countries in Europe were political enemies of which they are not now. (Reality - nothing has changed that wasn't already an issue in Europe, member states rebutted the comment expressing we live in different times and it is unlikely we will see a return to those days regardless of brexit)

-Bank of England makes a statement that even the vote of Brexit would almost certainly bring on another recession (it didn't happen and was not based on any credible evidence, it was a political address that the BoE are not supposed to do, by law they should be impartial, they claimed they had concerns and needed to express them - no action was taken on this breach of office and since then have done it a few more time without consequence, noted all in Pro EU position of fear if we left) since this the BoE has failed twice more in its predictions making anything it says on Brexit holds little credible value. (Reality - no recession, BoE admits it had plenty of reserves to cope Oops they failed to mention that and in fact since then the UK has seen record foreign investment in 2017)

-Treasury backs the BoE on recession claims and add that we can expect half million job loses on the vote alone, this is based on selective information and worst case scenarios of which they failed to mention (reality - employment went up to record highs).

I could go on and yes there were plenty done by Brexit but my point is that this was not one sided and we were given just as much if not more lies and fearmongering from remain.
Since the vote only 1 in 10 of the project fear came to fruition on the vote alone and that was the pound value but we have a floating pound and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to predict the market on that and on the pound, it has its positives for been low like boosted exports, a high pound in reflection which we had damaged our exports although inversely for both imports see the opposite effect (reality - most remainers point out that they get less alcohol abroad per pound so they were right and the world is falling in ).

 

[Midwest]

How long did that take to type that all out?

 

[Darkwood]

@Midwest

LOL - I can type very fast, and no none of it is copy and paste either, probably took 4 -5 mins.

 

[telectrix]

that would have taken me about an hour. then another half hour correcting.

 

[johnduffell]

a proud and productive country again.

tread its own lonely path in the big wide world

Well, at least we have covered both sides of the same coin.
Do we want the freedom to go it alone or the power to do it together?
Seems no one is debating whether we could or should have a better EU, it seems to be a more fundamental argument than that.

 

[Adam W]

Oh yes, the "brainwashing and propaganda" - anyone who votes Tory is not only a "nasty racist bigot", but a "stupid nasty racist bigot" who needs to be told who to vote for, unlike those clever university professors who make a living out of reading books and watching telly instead of providing services which people will pay for.

... And the Tories want to privatise the NHS. Any day now. They're building up to it.

 

[Darkwood]

@johnduffell

'Seems no one is debating whether we could or should have a better EU, it seems to be a more fundamental argument than that.'

It would be a nice thought but here lies the problem, the EU has a design plan, it was hidden for decades and denied and only now have they admitted their goal, anyone or thing gets in the way of this direction is forced to take it one way or another. If you do you EU history you will be shocked at the way they treat members who oppose the EU ideology and on many occasion the EU has ignored or forced reruns on democratic votes, it is no coincidence the way the trade talks are going, it is not at all in their interest to allow brexit to happen in full and they will try anything to keep us aligned or in the customs union to preserve power and control over our destiny.

 

[johnduffell]

So dark wood i guess that's a : yes you'd like some kind of better common organisation for common good (i shouldn't have called it a better EU) but you don't believe it's possible (without starting from scratch? or at all due to the nature of large organisations? or due to cultural difference across the countries?)

 

[electric al]

The eu is a spent force it just doesn't know it yet. Their arrogant posturing on a daily basis and anti british daily briefings about how we need to accept eu reality is
Spiteful. They can't seem to accept that anyone wouldn't want to be a member of their club. But all they are really bothered about is our subscription fees.
Its easier to leave the mafia than extracate yourself from the e.u.
As soon as we are out there will be a stampede of other nations wanting out.
As ever it will be Britain that leads the way in Europe.

 

[Darkwood]

@johnduffell

When we joined it as the E.E.C. was presented as purely a trade group designed to bring countries together to make trade better and easier, it then became the EU that used power creep and an ideology that destroyed many of the original benefits that existed, it became a controlling entity and no longer was seen as simply a trading agreement, a few decades on it became all to obvious why as they revealed their plans for a superstate EU with its own army, one currency and one overall governing body, this plan can only be achieved if member release all individual powers over, if we all sign up to the common currency and if we surrender democracy and sovereignty.
We can only have what was originally on the table like the E.E.C if either we leave and set up a separate trade deal or the EU disbands and reverts back to a simple trading body and gives back all powers and controls to each nation member.

What are the chances of the EU back stepping 3 decades --- zero imho, it would have to collapse to get anywhere near, it is run by too many deluded stubborn ideolistic minds who are power hungry so that only leaves the option to leave regain all that was lost and set up a individual trade deal.

Many say it's impossible to have our cake and eat it yet the EU has shot itself in the foot twice recently by giving Canada and Japan exactly this, over 95% free trade without commitment to the ECJ ruling, freedom of movement or been a member of the customs union or single market.. these 2 countries trade a 10th of what the uk does and we have the advantage of having a massive trade deficit to lever a better deal, the only thing blocking that deal is the EU itself which is intent on us remaining in the customs union in some form or fashion, it will maintain its sluggish stance and dismissive attitude until the 5mins to midnight when it has exhausted all options - my worry is we have May who is a remainer at heart and she seems to be dancing to the EU's song here and trying to keep us tied to EU customs regulatory control meaning we haven't left and cannot make those trade deals across the world without EU intervention IE Bexit in name only, that is why we saw Boris and Davis resign as they know this is not Brexit what she has proposed - it is likely the EU will play ball on it as they keep customs control yet she is taking a massive gamble in defying the electorate decision hence she is presenting it as what we asked for when it clearly is not.. she is relying on the publics general lack of understanding here to keep here position... it gets me how she has to both keep the brexiteers happy and the remainers happy at the same time - no she doesn't, Brexit won and those are the ones you need to keep happy, remainers need to learn what a democratic decision is and why it is the core of our society, undermining it will carry forward consequences that could destroy public confidence in our whole system for decades to come.

 

[FatAlan]

Too many daily mail readers on here.

Five dumbs! Is this a record or does it just prove my point.

 

[Adam W]

Five dumbs! Is this a record or does it just prove my point.

Yes that must be it - all us stupid racists have been brainwashed by a newspaper.

 

[andyb]

Yes that must be it - all us stupid racists have been brainwashed by a newspaper.

Well that balances nicely Adam, all us 'whiney, self-loathing lefty sheep' were brainwashed by leftie teachers at school.

 

[Darkwood]

What gets my goat is I was against the EU long before Brexit was ever conceived, it wasn't a daily topic in the biased media (on both sides) yet it influenced everyone's lives, now I get accused of been racist, bigoted, brainwashed, deluded by a brigade of beermat experts who probably didn't have the first clue about the EU until 'we' voted to leave... all of a sudden my decades of interest and following of EU politics is irrelevant and they act like they are the all knowing oracles, the superior knowledge.
Don't get me wrong I appreciate and respect anyone's opinion but simply disagreeing with a post and not bringing anything to the table to support your own opinions is not making for a strong defence. (PS no aimed at anyone, just generalising)

The very fact we were taken into the EU through an illegal arrangment and act by Edward Heath seems to be lost, as it was illegal we are not for all intents or purposes a legal member of the EU but I guess the 10billion a year they received was a nice way to overlook that technicality.
It is and always has been part of the British law that what Heath did should have been done by consultation of the people either with a referendum or general election, he didn't and when asked many yrs later why he never asked the people or his own party he responded 'because they would have said no'. Its so ironic the storm this kicked up at the time that when we actually do give the people the say as is required by law then we have an outcry of people complaining we didn't know what we were voting for, I have yet to find 1 person who fits that claim.

 

[Adam W]

Well that balances nicely Adam, all us 'whiney, self-loathing lefty sheep' were brainwashed by leftie teachers at school.

Not quite - you have the choice which newspaper you buy and the freedom to make up your own mind, whereas school is the only option for most, where the whole point is to listen to what the teachers tell you.