When is the 18th Edition not the 18th Edition?

[oracle]

Since the dawn of time, people have been portraying things that they sell as more than what they are.

Last few years, you could buy 16th Edition testers, 17th Edition CCU's, etc. The only thing that is XXth Edition is the Regs, but already they are offering 18th Edition test kit.

They can call it anything they want, but that doesn't make it so. The newer kit may do things a bit faster, or have more ranges, but the requirements for test kit are BS 61010 and BS 61557.

They even called CCU's 17th Edition, when it's how you equip and install that will determine whether your installation COMPLIES with the current edition of BS7671.

CCU's are made to a different BS standard anyway. If your kit has regular calibration checks it's good for the job, you don't have to renew it every time the Regs change.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Same as selling Part P as a qualification, it's no wonder there's confusion on these things.

 

[Octopus]

Its all about the money .............. almost nothing about safety ...........

 

[Pete999]

Same as selling Part P as a qualification, it's no wonder there's confusion on these things.

Well said that Man

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I could only really see it making a difference, if you had some indication as to whether a result was a pass or fail.
When they introduced Cmin, that could have skewed pass or fail results.

 

[Spoon]

Same as selling Part P as a qualification, it's no wonder there's confusion on these things.

But if you do pass an examination or complete a course in Part P then that is a 'qualification' isn't it? Same as pass an examination or complete a course in BS7671. What's the difference?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

But if you do pass an examination or complete a course in Part P then that is a 'qualification' isn't it? Same as pass an examination or complete a course in BS7671. What's the difference?

I agree, but there are many newbies 'doing their part P' who believe that makes them a qualified electrician. I suspect many college courses perpetuate that myth. Unlike 7671 part P is a document that can be downloaded, read and understood in 10 minutes by any electrically competant person.

 

[Spoon]

I agree, but there are many newbies 'doing their part P' who believe that makes them a qualified electrician. I suspect many college courses perpetuate that myth. Unlike 7671 part P is a document that can be downloaded, read and understood in 10 minutes by any electrically competant person.

Never having done the Part P course I don't know what involved.
It may be a simple exam but my point is that it's still classed as a qualification. If the college, or whoever, miss-sell the course then they need their arse kicking. (which I can't see happening...)

 

[GBDamo]

In a lot of wholesalers I’ve seen these “Site Guides”

whilst I’m not quiestioning their content they are not these

I’m just wondering how many have bought the above thinking they have the latter.

 

[Spoon]

I thought everyone knows that NICEIC & Elecsa supersede even BS7671, never mind the OSG......

 

[Pete999]

In a lot of wholesalers I’ve seen these “Site Guides”
View attachment 44440
whilst I’m not quiestioning their content they are not these
View attachment 44441
I’m just wondering how many have bought the above thinking they have the latter.

The "Site Guide" is I believed published by the NICEIC as one f their guides, not as good as the IET OSG in my opinion. Tried to fob me off with a copy at the NICEIC cinema presentation, got the OSG at ELEX last week.

 

[GBDamo]

I agree, but there are many newbies 'doing their part P' who believe that makes them a qualified electrician. I suspect many college courses perpetuate that myth. Unlike 7671 part P is a document that can be downloaded, read and understood in 10 minutes by any electrically competant person.

A while since I did mine but the Part P element was never sold a an electrical course as such but rather a required element in a suite of courses required to be eligible to apply to be assessed to join a CPS.

There was little doubt that the Part P element was an explaination and assessment of the building regulations relevant to electrical installations. Alongside the then 17th edition and inspection and testing allowed successful candidates to have the knowledge to apply to join a CPS.

It did not cover practical skills.

part P has become a colloquialism bit like someone calling their Dyson. Hoover.

 

[GBDamo]

The "Site Guide" is I believed published by the NICEIC as one f their guides, not as good as the IET OSG in my opinion. Tried to fob me off with a copy at the NICEIC cinema presentation, got the OSG at ELEX last week.

quite but this is being sold in packages alongside the 18th which I think is a little naughty.

I have pointed this out, mostly to blank expressions.

 

[Pete999]

A while since I did mine but the Part P element was never sold a an electrical course as such but rather a required element in a suite of courses required to be eligible to apply to be assessed to join a CPS.

There was little doubt that the Part P element was an explaination and assessment of the building regulations relevant to electrical installations. Alongside the then 17th edition and inspection and testing allowed successful candidates to have the knowledge to apply to join a CPS.

It did not cover practical skills.

part P has become a colloquialism bit like someone calling their Dyson. Hoover.

My Mrs calls ours Oleg

 

[Dillb]

In a lot of wholesalers I’ve seen these “Site Guides”
View attachment 44440
whilst I’m not quiestioning their content they are not these
View attachment 44441
I’m just wondering how many have bought the above thinking they have the latter.

What I dont undersrand is why the NICEIC state its for installations upto 100amps? What changes if you go above that?

 

[Pete999]

What I dont undersrand is why the NICEIC state its for installations upto 100amps? What changes if you go above that?

Hi Dillb
The OSG from the IET states the 100Amp max as well, introductions page 11
And I quote "this guide is restricted to installations"
a) at a supply frequency of 50hz
b) at a nominal voltage of 230Vac single phase or 400/ 230 Vac 3 phase
c) supplied through a distributors cut-out having a fuse rated at 100A or less to one of the following standards
BS 88-2
BS 88-3
BS88-6
BS 1361 TYPE 2

 

[Pete999]

What I dont undersrand is why the NICEIC state its for installations upto 100amps? What changes if you go above that?

Delete by me double post.

 

[GBDamo]

What I dont undersrand is why the NICEIC state its for installations upto 100amps? What changes if you go above that?

Bad,Bad things, so bad.

 

[Pete999]

Hi Dillb
The OSG from the IET states the 100Amp max as well, introductions page 11
And I quote "this guide is restricted to installations"
a) at a supply frequency of 50hz
b) at a nominal voltage of 230Vac single phase or 400/ 300 Vac 3 phase
c) supplied through a distributors cut-out having a fuse rated at 100A or less to one of the following standards
BS 88-2
BS 88-3
BS88-6
BS 1361 TYPE 2

Have no idea why it double posted, can the Mods delete one for me, don't want to be accused of raising my post count.

 

[GBDamo]

Hi Dillb
The OSG from the IET states the 100Amp max as well, introductions page 11
And I quote "this guide is restricted to installations"
a) at a supply frequency of 50hz
b) at a nominal voltage of 230Vac single phase or 400/ 300 Vac 3 phase
c) supplied through a distributors cut-out having a fuse rated at 100A or less to one of the following standards
BS 88-2
BS 88-3
BS88-6
BS 1361 TYPE 2

Then the IET version covers installations up yo 300A??

 

[Pete999]

Then the IET version covers installations up yo 300A??

Pardon

 

[GBDamo]

Pardon

up to 100A per phase

 

[Pete999]

up to 100A per phase

No it says fuse or fuses rated at 100Amps

 

[Pete999]

up to 100A per phase

Where does that come from?

 

[oracle]

Anyone can pass the multi choice exam on BS7671 Regs without understanding it or even having any site experience. Colleges don't teach the Regs they teach you how to pass the exam.

Good luck passing the Design and Verification exam on the Regs without a thorough understanding of the Requirements for Electrical Installations, which is BS7671, commonly known as the Regs.

 

[GBDamo]

Where does that come from?

Here

Hi Dillb
The OSG from the IET states the 100Amp max as well, introductions page 11
And I quote "this guide is restricted to installations"
a) at a supply frequency of 50hz
b) at a nominal voltage of 230Vac single phase or 400/ 230 Vac 3 phase
c) supplied through a distributors cut-out having a fuse rated at 100A or less to one of the following standards
BS 88-2
BS 88-3
BS88-6
BS 1361 TYPE 2

 

[Spoon]

Colleges don't teach the Regs they teach you how to pass the exam.

That's what the guy who was doing out 17th ED course said to us.
"I'm not here to teach you the regs but to pass the exam"

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That's what the guy who was doing out 17th ED course said to us.
"I'm not here to teach you the regs but to pass the exam"

Same thing happened (and probably still is happening) with the 2391.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What gets me, is when someone does their core qualifications during a particular edition of BS7671, then the NICEIC requires them to get the update qualification for that same edition.

 

[Pete999]

Here

So 100A/phase is what exactly=100Amps singe phase

 

[Pete999]

So 100A/phase is what exactly=100Amps single phase

Which is what I said in my first post, then you mentioned 300Amps

 

[GBDamo]

Which is what I said in my first post, then you mentioned 300Amps

You're talking to yourself now Pete.

I would assume if you have a three phase suppy, at 100A/phase, then you will have 300A available, no?

 

[Pete999]

You're talking to yourself now Pete.

I would assume if you have a three phase suppy, at 100A/phase, then you will have 300A available, no?

At what voltage?

 

[oracle]

Maybe we can just buy the exam success book for any course and sit a £50 exam. Then the buggers charging hundreds of pounds for the same thing can get a proper job and do a day's work