Wholesaler prices lately.

[oscar21]

What is it with the recent prices I'm getting at wholesalers, just about everything anyone quotes now is about 20% dearer than I can get things for retail. Take today, I needed some conduit, saddles etc so went to a wholesalers round the corner, I don't use them very often but I know the lad who served me quite well so its not as if I'm a randomer off the street. the bill was about £100 but doing a bit of research this evening it turns out I could of got the same stuff for about £75 from Toolstation or Screwfix etc, or slightly cheaper if I ordered it on-line.

Its the same with our regular wholesaler, they are getting so expensive I hardly ever use them anymore, luckily I'm quite organised so get most stuff on-line now from various places. But these on-line places still have trade counters and physical stores, they are basically wholesalers just like the ones I use but selling on-line as well, if they can sell for that price so can the one I use. I son't see any sense in it, eventually everyone will do what I have done and just buy on-line.

I wouldn't mind but on-line is brilliant, you can order whilst sat in the bath, it arrives anywhere in the country the next day, is the cheapest option and vary rarely does anything go wrong. Wholesalers will be a thing of the past if they don't change track soon.

 

[oscar21]

So your issue is with manufacturers no longer fixing prices (now illegal) and other oulets selling too cheaply?

Forgive my confusion, but you initially stated that wholesalers should sell to you at lower prices and now lament the demise of the days when they had to sell at a minimum price.

If you're worried about 'loads of undercutting and driving other business's out of existence just for pure profit. then surely you'd want to support the wholesalers who are hammered on price by large DIY chains?

No because they didn't have the same pricelist for everyone. Trade places would have to sell at trade rates which would be the same as other trade places and retail outlets would have to sell at retail prices and wholesalers wouldn't be able to sell to the public, it was just a fairer way of doing things, you knew what price you would pay almost before you even walked in the door.

 

[nicebutdim]

No because they didn't have the same pricelist for everyone. Trade places would have to sell at trade rates which would be the same as other trade places and retail outlets would have to sell at retail prices and wholesalers wouldn't be able to sell to the public, it was just a fairer way of doing things, you knew what price you would pay almost before you even walked in the door.

I'm no longer certain of the issue under discussion, but have commented at length on the original points raised and don't feel I can add much to that.

 

[Marvo]

........In many instances, a manufacturing customer or distributor received huge discounts of anything from 25%-80% (depending on product range in question), while the little guys received maybe 5%-20%. Retail customers paid list price....

We have at least 2 suppliers where we get 60% discount or more from the list price or official retail price. It's mostly main agents for EU origin motors, pumps and compressors etc they sell. Ive never understood how the retail price could be 2.5 times higher than the trade price.

 

[ipf]

Its because wholesalers should (and used to be) the go to place to get your stuff. If you were a DIY'er you went to B&Q or more recently screwfix/toolstaiton, if you were in the trade you went to a wholesaler and got things cheaper than the DIYer or householder so you could make a markup on it which paid for the time and effort of sourcing it and getting it.

Nowadays wholesalers are just a retail outlet trying to maximise their proffits in any way they can.

That's why you don't get the same range of stock, too.
Anything that's been standing on the shelves for long at audit time is just got rid of, one way or another, to make room for more saleable items.
I'm talking long before B&Q and ages before Screwfix....when trade price at a wholesalers was the cheapest.......FOR A TRADESMAN.
Some asked for ID and folk off the street were turned away, even people from other trades.

 

[nicebutdim]

We have at least 2 suppliers where we get 60% discount or more from the list price or official retail price. It's mostly main agents for EU origin motors, pumps and compressors etc they sell. Ive never understood how the retail price could be 2.5 times higher than the trade price.

Clearly much depends on how a wholesaler chooses to structure pricing, but large distributors and equipment manufacturers would usually receive greatest discounts. The former allows for sub-distribution.

Smaller distributors, manufacturers and trade customers would receive lower discounts, generally on a sliding scale commensurate with the level of business received anually.

'Retail' prices are plucked out of thin air or, more accurately, based on a large mark up of supplier ex-works pricing. If a trade customer finds out one of their customers has bought directly from the wholesaler, they would expect that pricing would have been identical with their own. When things worked in this way, everyone was (for the most part) happy. If a distributor's customer received a discount directly from the wholesaler, then complained to the distributor about their pricing, you were guaranteed a long and uncomfortable phone conversation.

I guess this system was something of a cartel, but most people were content with how it worked as evidenced by OP lamenting its demise in the electrical trade.

 

[nicebutdim]

That's why you don't get the same range of stock, too.
Anything that's been standing on the shelves for long at audit time is just got rid of, one way or another, to make room for more saleable items.
I'm talking long before B&Q and ages before Screwfix....when trade price at a wholesalers was the cheapest.......FOR A TRADESMAN.
Some asked for ID and folk of the street were turned away, even people from other trades.

That about sums it up. Buy huge quantities of a limited range of items, then pile them high and sell them cheap. Everyone is happy until they need something less common and find the only local source has closed their doors.

If wholesalers want to compete, they'd have to turn over sigificant amounts of shelf space to items on which they'd make minimal profit - in all probability, wholesalers would never be able to buy popular goods more cheaper than large DIY sheds, so efforts to compete would be wasted as trade prices would never be lower than retail prices of those retail outlets.

The only way to restore the old system would be if manufacturers refused to sell as cheaply to DIY outlets, but they'd simply lose sales to other, or 'own', brands.

In 2021, Kingfisher Group (parent company of Screwfix and B&Q) made sales of £13.2 billion globally, whereas in the same year CEF turned over £751 million. Hopefully this helps put the issue in perspective and aids understanding with regard to buying power and why manufacturers might choose to offer preferential prices to certain companies.

 

[LukeD]

Interesting post I read about screwfix .... They 'dodge " retail planning consent as they claim they are only TRADE . THis caused them issues during CV19 and covid grants for retailers !

 

[ipf]

Interesting post I read about screwfix .... They 'dodge " retail planning consent as they claim they are only TRADE . THis caused them issues during CV19 and covid grants for retailers !

Obviously, then, there is still a difference between trade and retail.
So I can't see how they could be trade if they have retail customers.
Maybe, in some cases, you actually can't have your cake and eat it.

B&Q must use 'TradePoint as a separate business, then. Easy to see with it's own counters, I suppose.

 

[oscar21]

Well so much for wholesalers, I need a 6 way 3 phase MCG board this morning and neither of the two closest CEF's have any in stock, it's their own brand, he said I will have to order one online

 

[nicebutdim]

Well so much for wholesalers, I need a 6 way 3 phase MCG board this morning and neither of the two closest CEF's have any in stock, it's their own brand, he said I will have to order one online

45 in stock for next day delivery. Seems they also cater to those who prefer online wholesalers.

6 Way Triple Pole and Neutral Distribution Board with 125 Amp 4 Pole Incoming Isolator Solid Door

4 Pole 125A incomer included

www.cef.co.uk

 

[ipf]

45 in stock for next day delivery. Seems they also cater to those who prefer online wholesalers.

6 Way Triple Pole and Neutral Distribution Board with 125 Amp 4 Pole Incoming Isolator Solid Door

4 Pole 125A incomer included

www.cef.co.uk

Has that taken over from their own Proteus cr*p?
Looks just as flimsy.

 

[nicebutdim]

Has that taken over from their own Proteus cr*p?
Looks just as flimsy.

Fitted a couple for site supplies. Not the worst, but certainly not the best.

They still sell Proteus.

 

[oscar21]

Has that taken over from their own Proteus cr*p?
Looks just as flimsy.

I think they still do proteus as well. We are kitting out a brand new industrial unit but it only had a 4 way 3ph board in it and two of the ways were taken up by the roller shutter door and an SPD so that only left 6 single phase ways for lights, heaters, sockets etc and it simply wasn't big enough.
After all the talk on here about wholesalers selling bread and butter stuff I thought a leading wholesaler situated right in the middle of one of the biggest industrial sites in europe might have had one of their own make board in stock but when I inquired they looked at me like I was stupid for thinking they would. It was "nah mate, we wouldn't have one of them, you will have to get it on line"

 

[nicebutdim]

I think they still do proteus as well. We are kitting out a brand new industrial unit but it only had a 4 way 3ph board in it and two of the ways were taken up by the roller shutter door and an SPD so that only left 6 single phase ways for lights, heaters, sockets etc and it simply wasn't big enough.
After all the talk on here about wholesalers selling bread and butter stuff I thought a leading wholesaler situated right in the middle of one of the biggest industrial sites in europe might have had one of their own make board in stock but when I inquired they looked at me like I was stupid for thinking they would. It was "nah mate, we wouldn't have one of them, you will have to get it on line"

I'll bet they'd have had an alternative - possibly Schneider IKQE.

While not a fan of CEF pricing, their website is decent and stock levels shown for each store are exactly what that store's staff see on their own system. Other than occasional inaccuracies, I find this to be generally very reliable - saves a wasted journey.

 

[oscar21]

I'll bet they'd have had an alternative - possibly Schneider IKQE.

While not a fan of CEF pricing, their website is decent and stock levels shown for each store are exactly what that store's staff see on their own system. Other than occasional inaccuracies, I find this to be generally very reliable - saves a wasted journey.

Alternative was no good though, the original board already had a main switch and several RCBO's in it which could have gone into the new board. If it meant a different make panel then I would have got the whole lot from somewhere else anyway.
Don't you need to be logged into the CEF web page to see the stock etc.

 

[nicebutdim]

Alternative was no good though, the original board already had a main switch and several RCBO's in it which could have gone into the new board. If it meant a different make panel then I would have got the whole lot from somewhere else anyway.
Don't you need to be logged into the CEF web page to see the stock etc.

One of those days when things don't go quite as well as they could.

I find the bulk of stock in CEF branches is very much tailored to the market served. My local branch stocks quite a bit of stuff that other nearby branches don't carry. Conversely, I've often found that items not stocked locally are always available elsewhere - sometimes this applies to an entire range of goods. I guess this is one knock on effect of fewer people buying from local wholesalers and instead seeking out savings online.

No need to log in to view CEF stock in branches. I can't remember the last time I logged in and just type in the nearest town name on individual product pages. Perhaps the website automatically shows local branch stock if logged in.

 

[pc1966]

Don't you need to be logged into the CEF web page to see the stock etc.

No.

But if you are logged in you can't sort by price!!!

 

[nicebutdim]

No.

But if you are logged in you can't sort by price!!!

That answers a pertinent question. I remember on some occasions being unable to sort by price, but other times it was no problem. Never understood why.

 

[123]

Don't use online much for materials, I find wholesalers better and generally cheaper!
My nearest wholesalers are over 20 miles away, so I'm dependant upon delivery. But they'll phone me on route and deliver it to where I want, rather than an address I specified a day or two ago. With my main wholesaler I can get same day delivery 5 days a week if ordered before 10AM and if I'm stuck and in a pickle they'll sort me out in the afternoon.

For the likes of T&E CEF have always been cheaper than Toolstation & Screwfix for me. Click, Wago's, Consumer units etc...all cheaper at wholesalers than I can see online. There are some things that will be cheaper online, but the biggest plus for me is when something goes faulty and needs replaced, they send me down the item, I go and replace it, and then I send back the faulty one for credit. No chance you get that with an online supplier.

 

[mattg4321]

I doubt you’ll beat toolstation for t&e at the moment. They’re 15-20% cheaper than all the wholesalers last I looked

 

[123]

I doubt you’ll beat toolstation for t&e at the moment. They’re 15-20% cheaper than all the wholesalers last I looked

I got some through the week from wholesalers and was cheaper than Toolstation. Not by much, about 60p a coil, but also another 2.5% off that again for settlement payment when I pay the bill.

 

[nicebutdim]

I doubt you’ll beat toolstation for t&e at the moment. They’re 15-20% cheaper than all the wholesalers last I looked

A few months back, Tradepoint was cheaper than Screwfix & Toolstation. It's like a competition to find who can sell T&E at the lowest profit and I'm content to see prices driven downwards again.

 

[Lister1987]

A few months back, Tradepoint was cheaper than Screwfix & Toolstation. It's like a competition to find who can sell T&E at the lowest profit and I'm content to see prices driven downwards again.

Someone needs to make an app there was diodeelectrical but it seems to have let the url lapse

 

[oscar21]

A few months back, Tradepoint was cheaper than Screwfix & Toolstation. It's like a competition to find who can sell T&E at the lowest profit and I'm content to see prices driven downwards again.

There is T&E and T&E though, our wholesalers cable is awful, all of it, you cant strip the SWA for love nor money and the T&E is jst as bad, its like stripping LSF using their stuff. The Prysmian that Screwfix sell is the best but the coils are naff, the cardboard ends keep falling off unless you keep it in the box with is another impossibility. Toolstations Doncaster cable is ok if they have any in stock.

 

[SJD]

There is T&E and T&E though, our wholesalers cable is awful, all of it, you cant strip the SWA for love nor money and the T&E is jst as bad, its like stripping LSF using their stuff. The Prysmian that Screwfix sell is the best but the coils are naff, the cardboard ends keep falling off unless you keep it in the box with is another impossibility. Toolstations Doncaster cable is ok if they have any in stock.

I agree about the naff Prysmian reels in cardboard that falls apart. So much so that I pay a bit more sometimes somewhere else to avoid buying the stuff.