Why are cctv installers not using the LSHF cat 6 cable when wiring domestic in Ireland. When wiring lights/sockets etc

[Adrian w]

Why are cctv installers in ireland not using LSHF cable in a domestic situation as when wiring Sockets/ LIGHTS rtc Irish regs state thst LSHF CABLE must be used. If i am certing the rewire of house and cctv installer installs standard cat 6 ( not LSHF)Cable i surely cannot cert that house.

 

[Simon47]

Speaking as someone who's done more networking than power ...
I know very little about the Irish regs, but from what you write I assume you believe they require LSHF cables for networking as well as power. As to why people aren't following that, well my experience is that many network installers over here are almost (if not completely) ignorant of BS7671 and I'd be surprised if that were different over there with your own regs.
Since (from memory) LSHF cables cost more than PVC, until someone pulls the installers up on it then they won't change.

 

[Pete999]

Speaking as someone who's done more networking than power ...
I know very little about the Irish regs, but from what you write I assume you believe they require LSHF cables for networking as well as power. As to why people aren't following that, well my experience is that many network installers over here are almost (if not completely) ignorant of BS7671 and I'd be surprised if that were different over there with your own regs.
Since (from memory) LSHF cables cost more than PVC, until someone pulls the installers up on it then they won't change.

Why should it change??

 

[Simon47]

If the regs say "use X" but people aren't using X because it costs a bit more, then they'll carry on not using X until "someone" pulls them up on it and it starts costing more in remedials than it would have done to simply comply with regs first.
And I guess the "someone" would need to be their equivalent of building control...

 

[Adrian w]

Thanks Simon. I wont be certing the house rewire unless they use LSHF cat 6. They said they wiill install at a later date ie when i am finished and gone i presume. Why i have to use LSHF as an Electrician and they are not does not make sense. They prob run their cables surface everywhere instead of using a bit more expensive cable. LOGIC out the door.

 

[LastManOnline]

Thanks Simon. I wont be certing the house rewire unless they use LSHF cat 6. They said they wiill install at a later date ie when i am finished and gone i presume. Why i have to use LSHF as an Electrician and they are not does not make sense. They prob run their cables surface everywhere instead of using a bit more expensive cable. LOGIC out the door.

Your reaction is understandable. Of course all cables should meet the same fire standard. However the electrical regulations do not regulate use of cat 6 in domestic installations so withholding an electrical cert on that basis might be problematic

 

[Simon47]

I can't speak for the Irish regs, but in the UK there are various regs that apply equally to data and power cabling. I mentioned that (here in the UK) I suspect many network installers are completely oblivious to the existence of BS7671 - but BS7671 doesn't actually exclude non-power cabling. Obviously most of it won't apply, but some (such as methods for installation, routing, etc) will. And of course, a pile of network cables will trap a fireman as effectively as any other cable if the rules on cable support are ignored.
Are you sure that in Ireland the electrical (and other) regs really don't cover other cabling as well ? Is the LSHF rule part of the electrical regs or a separate building reg ?

 

[LastManOnline]

Are you sure that in Ireland the electrical (and other) regs really don't cover other cabling as well ?

Is the LSHF rule part of the electrical regs or a separate building reg ?

Right. You compelled me to do a little digging. Firstly I got it wrong when I stated the regs did, nt cover Cat 5.They do. 11. 2 (E) mentions "wiring for information and communication technology".
So yes, the LSHF rule is part of the electrical regs.

Regarding the Op, s question as to whether he should refuse to certify an installation not wired in LSHF from here on, its worth bearing in mind that although the new regs apply since February of this year, installations designed before this date (there are many due to covid) can still be constructed and certified to the old standard. Cut off date is July 2022.So wholesalers will be selling the "old" cable for sometime yet

 

[Adrian w]

Thanks Simon. This is a new install only designed and constructed this summer. Therefore i in thinking that this rewire inc any communications cabling must be LSHF.. AS usual, MONEY obviously coming into making a decision on this. ( price of cat 6 to LSHF cat 6. Pennies really' V ' human life ) . Well at the end of the day i hold the CERT till i am shown PROOF that they don't need LSHF. Thanks for your information.
life.

 

[Strima]

Well at the end of the day i hold the CERT till i am shown PROOF that they don't need LSHF.

Why would you be certifying someone else's work?

 

[Avo Mk8]

Why would you be certifying someone else's work?

Post #1 says ......If i am certing the rewire of house and cctv installer installs standard cat 6 ( not LSHF)Cable i surely cannot cert that house?

I assumed the OP did the rewire ?

 

[LastManOnline]

Why would you be certifying someone else's work?

If he was a QC (qualified certifier) working for a company he could certify other employee, s work. But from the OP, s post it does, nt sound like its fellow employee, s he is dealing with.

 

[littlespark]

i don’t know how the certs would work over there, but isn’t there a box for scope of works, or what you are actually responsible for?
Write down something like “all installation tested except data cables as done by others”
Then if building control or whoever receives the cert, they can ask the question.

you have covered your back, and paperwork to prove it.
if something happens down the line, then blame is pointed elsewhere.

 

[LastManOnline]

i don’t know how the certs would work over there, but isn’t there a box for scope of works, or what you are actually responsible for?
Write down something like “all installation tested except data cables as done by others”
Then if building control or whoever receives the cert, they can ask the question.

you have covered your back, and paperwork to prove it.
if something happens down the line, then blame is pointed elsewhere.

Yes. There is a "comments" box where suchlike could be noted

 

[Risteard]

Apologies for the late reply. (Hadn't seen this thread before.) But there is also the concept of "Subsystems" under I.S. 10101 (and ET 101 before). There are Sybsystem certs for these (although it's hard to see how it would apply to this - it's usually for a low voltage rather than ELV installation by a specialist company, e.g. lift installation or something similar. The Subsystem Cert is referenced in the normal Completion Cert and therefore the main electrical contractor isn't responsible for the Subsystem.

In relation to the OP, there is no doubt that network cabling is required to be to a minimum standard of Dca, -s2, d2, a2. The fact that it is data cabling does not bring it outside the scope of the Wiring Rules.