Why are there so many secrets during job planning

[oscar21]

This drives me round the twist, the client tells you what they want, kind of. you do the work the way the client asks you to and then when its all finished they say why isn't there a socket for the fridge on that wall, didn't you see it on the expensive architect drawn plans that I never sent you.

I don't get it, if I was having work done I would go out of my way to make sure the workman had all the possible info at hand so he do the best job possible but customers seem to try their best to keep everything a secret, you basically have to waterboard them just to find out where the TV is going.

Take two things from today, one job was a loft conversion and despite it being planned about 6 months ago and actually having an electrical drawing we priced off when we got there everything had changed and the customer didn't have a jar of glue about where he wanted stuff, he had to be baby stepped through everything by us. He could have done some sketches over the weekend or something just to give us some kind of idea.

The second crazy thing was a job we 2nd fixed last week, we do insurance work in fire damaged houses, by the time we get there its just a shell, there are never any plans and a lot of the electrics have already been ripped out. Apparently there should have been a socket in the kitchen that we hadn't wired and now its all decorated. I said how was I supposed to know there should have been a socket there and the manager said "well it shows it on the video I took before it was all ripped out" Yea, nice one Einstein, maybe you should have sent the video to us on day one then. I have to deal with some many thick people on a daily basis its sending me mad.

 

[nicebutdim]

It's natural enough that a homeowner might need to be led by the hand, but it's also worth making clear to them that, not only will additional work mean extra cost, but that they'll potentially have to bring back other trades to rework finished floors/walls/ceilings, in order to add all those points that seemed like a good idea after the fact.

If you think homeowners are maddening, you should see the changes often requested in commercial and industrial installations right the way through a build and even after it's finished and ready for handover. With a homeowner you have a chance of frightening them with additional costs, but that doesn't happen when someone else is picking up the tab.

It would appear as though there are a lot of people out there who believe power can simply be beamed from point A to point B.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Been this way for as long as I have been in the trade , its why when quoting a Re-wire or extension I try to go overboard with points. For example double bedroom and customer has said they want 3 double sockets , I will always ramp this up and quote for 4 , so they get 1 in each corner as the bare minimum. Kitchen layouts can be a pain as they often change 2 or 3 times and sometimes change post first fix wiring. Grrrr

 

[littlespark]

I think I already mentioned a rewire I’m doing for a farmer…. “Just put things back as they are”

What? One single socket in each bedroom, only 2 in the living room, and I don’t have a clue about the kitchen as it was completely ripped out before I saw the job…. Just a couple of hanging 2.5 cables and a 6mm for the cooker with a rawlplug stuck in it. As in, the cable came down the wall diagonally and the wall unit was fixed through it.

 

[Cankeredlamentations]

I suppose you get all sorts with domestic, recently did an alteration where client wanted a 2way switching circuit (control landing light from upstairs/downstairs) changing to 3 way (an intermediate) and lights adding to their boarded out loft and a switch for those. Did the job no issues, then when I went back to do some patching/making good got asked 'while you're here can you stick a light in the under stair cupboard" fortunately they were really sound and had no issues paying for the extra work not included in the original price. They had no idea how electrics work in terms of getting cables to where they needed to go, chasing etc so I do my best to explain what needs to happen and what to expect from the outset, though you do get people where it is one ear and out the other straight away.

 

[LukeD]

With all jobs like this .I stipulate that I design my work and the client agrees. Not remotely interested what they have discussed with partners or other trades etc. Once I have received instructions , confirmed its all doable etc etc .Then that plan is signed off .And movement from it can mean costs added . These also need to be signed off/agreed on paper etc etc before been completed . There has to be a solid paper trail that creates full proof "evidence" of whats going on.

 

[oscar21]

Its not the changes that bother me so much, its more the fact that people sit on information when it would be vastly more beneficial to give it to you. Clients will verbally try to tell you where to put things in a kitchen when it turns out they had a proper drawing for it all along. Or they will send you to a job but not mention there isn't anyone there to let you in and the key was actually under the plastic pelican next to the pond, then not answer the phone.

We finished off yesterdays job today and went round everything with the client just to make sure he was happy with where we put everything as per his instructions, only he brought his wife along as well and she said "oh I've not even seen the drawing yet, I'll sit down later and look at it" What the hell does that mean? I'm not going back until its time to 2nd fix now as I have other stuff booked in.

 

[LukeD]

Its not the changes that bother me so much, its more the fact that people sit on information when it would be vastly more beneficial to give it to you. Clients will verbally try to tell you where to put things in a kitchen when it turns out they had a proper drawing for it all along. Or they will send you to a job but not mention there isn't anyone there to let you in and the key was actually under the plastic pelican next to the pond, then not answer the phone.

We finished off yesterdays job today and went round everything with the client just to make sure he was happy with where we put everything as per his instructions, only he brought his wife along as well and she said "oh I've not even seen the drawing yet, I'll sit down later and look at it" What the hell does that mean? I'm not going back until its time to 2nd fix now as I have other stuff booked in.

RULE ONE : Married couples etc etc . ONLY deal with one , take orders from one .What they discuss is of no importance to you !

 

[Vortigern]

I go with clipboard and graph paper and map out the rooms and mark everything on it and get the customer to look at and agree with the plan. Then I issue domestic contract referring to plan and work ordered and they sign that with 30% deposit. Invevitably changes occur. I then write detailing variation of contract and get the paper trail for that with uplift in costs agreed before proceeding with any changes. Because I paid for enhanced trustmark endorsement, I get the latest contract terms to make sure the contract will hold water in the event of dispute as it is complicated and there are many wrinkles to having a valid contract.

 

[Intoelectrics]

RULE ONE : Married couples etc etc . ONLY deal with one , take orders from one .What they discuss is of no importance to you !

In my experience the wife usually wants as much as possible everywhere and the husband wants as little as possible to keep the cost down.
Sometimes I may offer a suggestion in anticipation that hey may change their minds at some point anyway when it's too late and more aggro for me.

You often see the blame culture at it's full when things are missed or wrongly positioned. I have faced the blame (wrongly) on many occasions, which is very frustrating and sometimes upsetting at the time. So from experience I try to anticipate issues prior to works though often as the Op said, mind reading is not a skill any of us posses.

 

[LukeD]

I go with clipboard and graph paper and map out the rooms and mark everything on it and get the customer to look at and agree with the plan. Then I issue domestic contract referring to plan and work ordered and they sign that with 30% deposit. Invevitably changes occur. I then write detailing variation of contract and get the paper trail for that with uplift in costs agreed before proceeding with any changes. Because I paid for enhanced trustmark endorsement, I get the latest contract terms to make sure the contract will hold water in the event of dispute as it is complicated and there are many wrinkles to having a valid contract.

100% .Solid paper trails are the best thing ever in a legal argument (As Pimlico Plumbers found out twice !!)

 

[Diddy]

Was working in a Casino prob 20 years ago. It had taken about 1 year to do the total gut and refurb building-wise. Fairly large job for a casino but anyway it was a slog for M&E but we got there in the end....3 weeks before handover the owner comes in with the architect and mentions "Gawd I still like the idea of a balcony overlooking the gaming area with a fountain/water feature etc"...followed by a nervous laugh and about 3 hours later by a serious site meeting.
End result was lots of M&E having to be ripped out and rerouted to accommodate a great big stupid hole in the floor lol. No one cared "really" as it was good money. But there is a certain banging noise in my head that goes off when I am ripping out perfectly good work that was installed to 5mm tolerance lol.

 

[nicebutdim]

End result was lots of M&E having to be ripped out and rerouted to accommodate a great big stupid hole in the floor lol. No one cared "really" as it was good money. But there is a certain banging noise in my head that goes off when I am ripping out perfectly good work that was installed to 5mm tolerance lol.

Not going to post anything specific on a public forum, but I understand this frustration.

Plans change. Often they change more than once in the same day. Drawings out of date before they've reached your hands.

 

[Flanders]

You can get a good app for doing 2d / 3d drawing called floor plan creater. Only cost about £9 and is free to try out .then you have clear picture for where everything is going.