Why GAS but not Electricity? (LANDLORD REQUIREMENTS)

[1shortcircuit]

I believed that the rented property that I currently reside in may not be up to spec on the Electricity side of things.

Anyway, I decide to check on the .gov website about landlords and found this

Electrical safety

By law, your landlord must make sure that the electrical system and any electrical appliances supplied with the let, like washing machines and toasters, are safe to use. Your landlord must make sure electrical wiring and appliances are maintained in a safe condition for the length of the tenancy.
If your landlord supplies new appliances, he or she should also provide any accompanying instruction booklets.

So I did another search and found this

Gas
The landlord must comply with current Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations (which cover Liquid Propane Gas installations) by:

• Arranging for annual gas safety checks to be completed by a GAS SAFE registered contractor and a gas safety certificate obtained
• Ensuring all servicing, repairs and replacements are completed by a GAS SAFE registered contractor
• Providing tenants with a copy of the servicing certificate
• Retaining records of safety checks for at least two years

(Source - Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998)

And some of you guys believe that it's the influx of short course electricians to blame for the lack of work


PS My course and work experience are going brilliantly


Is anyone aware of any regulations that state rented accommodation should comply with the latest regs? Or is it possible to attack this from another angle?

The property in question is using a Wylex fuse board that is not using RCD protection but I have found GAS and WATER bonding but it looks closer to 6mm than 10mm?

Many Thanks to those who can offer any help

 

[chris murphy]

No you don't !!

The main killer is the product of the combustion of gas i.e. Carbon Monoxide which is produced by all gas appliances but more so with badly maintained gas appliances where the gas is not being burned properly.

The other cause of co poisoning is blocked or damaged flues which leak the products of combustion into the room, and / or inadequate ventilation of the room causing vitiation which means that the gas appliance burns-up all the oxygen in the room thus depriving the occupant of the room of said oxygen.

The victim will be totally unaware of any danger as carbon monoxide has no smell or taste and - like electricity - you can't see it. T make matters worse, the human body actually likes carbon monoxide - it can't get enough of it - and the victim will gently drift off to sleep under its effect.

Often the victim's brain will realise something is wrong after a while, but by that time the carbon monoxide will have had a detrimental effect on the body's muscles and the victim will find it difficult or impossible to move to a place of safety. Then the heart which is a muscle will fail causing the death of the victim.

Geordie Spark - retired gas fitter.

"Hello Geordie spark",


While I agree with 99% of your Post it is NOT Correct to state that ALL Gas Appliances produce Carbon Monoxide - Carbon Monoxide is produced by `Incomplete Combustion` - The `Complete Combustion Process` produces mainly Carbon Dioxide and Water Vapour with very small amounts of other `Products of Combustion`.

You also mentioned that `Vitiation` - would `deprive the Occupant of Oxygen` - while that would be the case - When an area that contains a Gas Appliance is deprived of Oxygen - `Vitiation` - it is the fact that there is not enough Oxygen to support `Complete Combustion` that then causes the Gas Appliance to produce Carbon Monoxide - As We both mentioned in our Posts - this is a `Deadly` situation.

Within the Human Body Carbon Monoxide `Attaches` itself to the Blood Cells actually `Stopping` the absorbtion of Oxygen which obviously leads to Death - This is a very simple explanation of the process - but ultimately the `End Result` is very often Death.


Here are some Quotes from British Gas and Gas Safe on Carbon Monoxide:

[h=2]Some Key facts about Carbon Monoxide[/h]

• Carbon Monoxide (CO) is known as the silent killer, around 30 people die each year from CO poisoning.
• CO poisoning can lead to lasting neurological damage.
• CO is absorbed by the blood 240 times more easily than oxygen and starves the body of oxygen.
• Children are at greater risk, the smaller the victim the more quickly the body can be overcome by the effects of CO.
• Almost 50% of people don't know what the warning signs of CO poisoning are.
• Carbon monoxide can seep into your property via shared flues and chimneys.
• Only 32% of retired people have their gas appliances checked regularly by a professional.

Sources: Gas Safe and COCAA



I am NOT trying to be Pedantic with these comments - It is Important that the other `Readers` of our Posts do not get any Incorrect Information about the `Combustion Process` of a Gas Burning Appliance - Although they should be aware that Gas Appliances CAN become `Deadly` if Incorrectly Installed or NOT Correctly Serviced / Repaired / Inspected.



Chris - Registered Gas Installer / Heating Engineer






Chris - Registered Gas Engineer / Installer & Heating Engineer

 

[High Tower]

Chris thanks for that, good informative post my friend, i knew most of it to be the case, but you know what its like trying to get a straight answer outta a gas fitter lol !!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

"Hello Geordie spark",


While I agree with 99% of your Post it is NOT Correct to state that ALL Gas Appliances produce Carbon Monoxide - Carbon Monoxide is produced by `Incomplete Combustion` - The `Complete Combustion Process` produces mainly Carbon Dioxide and Water Vapour with very small amounts of other `Products of Combustion`.

You also mentioned that `Vitiation` - would `deprive the Occupant of Oxygen` - while that would be the case - When an area that contains a Gas Appliance is deprived of Oxygen - `Vitiation` - it is the fact that there is not enough Oxygen to support `Complete Combustion` that then causes the Gas Appliance to produce Carbon Monoxide - As We both mentioned in our Posts - this is a `Deadly` situation.

Within the Human Body Carbon Monoxide `Attaches` itself to the Blood Cells actually `Stopping` the absorbtion of Oxygen which obviously leads to Death - This is a very simple explanation of the process - but ultimately the `End Result` is very often Death.


Here are some Quotes from British Gas and Gas Safe on Carbon Monoxide:

Some Key facts about Carbon Monoxide

• Carbon Monoxide (CO) is known as the silent killer, around 30 people die each year from CO poisoning.
• CO poisoning can lead to lasting neurological damage.
• CO is absorbed by the blood 240 times more easily than oxygen and starves the body of oxygen.
• Children are at greater risk, the smaller the victim the more quickly the body can be overcome by the effects of CO.
• Almost 50% of people don't know what the warning signs of CO poisoning are.
• Carbon monoxide can seep into your property via shared flues and chimneys.
• Only 32% of retired people have their gas appliances checked regularly by a professional.

Sources: Gas Safe and COCAA



I am NOT trying to be Pedantic with these comments - It is Important that the other `Readers` of our Posts do not get any Incorrect Information about the `Combustion Process` of a Gas Burning Appliance - Although they should be aware that Gas Appliances CAN become `Deadly` if Incorrectly Installed or NOT Correctly Serviced / Repaired / Inspected.



Chris - Registered Gas Installer / Heating Engineer






Chris - Registered Gas Engineer / Installer & Heating Engineer

Quite right.

Thank you.

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello High Tower and Geordie Spark",

Thank You both for your Positive Remarks about My Post - I was NOT trying to be Pedantic just clarifying a couple of points for any other Readers.

Chris

 

[Geordie Spark]

"Hello High Tower and Geordie Spark",

Thank You both for your Positive Remarks about My Post - I was NOT trying to be Pedantic just clarifying a couple of points for any other Readers.

Chris

Hi Chris

Yes I understand & have no problem with your very informative - and accurate post.

Mine was written in haste in the early hours of the morning and after consuming a rather large amount of red wine !!!

Kind Regards,
Geordie

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello Geordie",

Thanks for Your Reply to My message.

I did not want You to think that I was `Being Funny` with My Post - I could tell by what You wrote that You were knowledgeable about Gas / Gas Appliances and I guessed that You were perhaps meaning that the Appliances produced a `minute amount` of Carbon Monoxide [?].

As MOST People do think that Gas Appliances DO produce Carbon Monoxide - even `Gas Installers` that I have met at College while doing My ACS Assessments [5 Yearly] have stated this - I just wanted to clarify the point.

I `Slipped Up` Myself while writing a Post recently about Wood Burning Central Heating Appliances - Because I was writing about `Ensuring that these Appliances CANNOT become Over Pressurised - I then went on to write about the connecting of these Wood Burning Appliances to Sealed Heating Systems and what to Check regarding the Pressure and Temperature Relief Valves etc. - This was Information that I would have written when commenting on `Normal` Gas Fired Heating Systems - I just added it in My Post - BUT - That was NOT Correct.

MOST if not ALL Wood Burning Appliances CANNOT be connected to Sealed Heating Systems - I was `Annoyed` at My Error when I re-read My Post a few Days later and I then had to Post a `Correction` Message because I could NOT Edit My Post - [I don`t know why this was ?]

I mention this `Slip Up` because I know that it is EASY to be thinking about another aspect of something and then Write something that You did NOT really mean / make a slight error in your Post / Message - As I describe doing above.

"Good to hear from You"

Chris

 

[lynneinjapan]

Speaking as a landlord, it's only since joining this forum that I've learned there's no such thing as an electrical safety certificate - and I like to think that I'm relatively well-versed in the legalities of landlording. Yes, we are legally responsible for the safety of the electrics and in future I will be getting PIRs done, but as there's nothing specifically prescribed that we have to do (as opposed to needing annual Gas Safe certificates) I think most landlords - especially smaller ones - just don't appreciate the need for a full inspection.

 

[trev]

Most landlords don't even care Lynne, if they wern't required to have a CP12 they wouldn't do it. The thing is there's a lot of people out there who think "It's only a few wires, what can go wrong?" This cheapening of our trade has been compounded by the DI schemes (yes I know there are a lot of good DIs so don't shout at me for that) and the DIY shows where all you see is Billy messing about with cables so a lot don't know or care how or why to do it properly.
While you're right about getting PIRs done the likelyhood of you getting prosecuted if someone was injured in one of your properties after an electrical fault is sadly nil as it seems the powers that be are only interested in drowning the electrician in red tape and taking hard earned money out of our pockets

 

[lynneinjapan]

Of course there are some who don't care, but most of us appreciate that our tenants are human too, and our properties are their homes, and so we understand why the CP12 is required. You're right though, most probably wouldn't get one if they weren't a legal requirement, but then how many people get one for the home they live in themselves? We get our boiler serviced annually but we don't bother with a CP12 for our own home. Same with electrics - if you believe that a quick visual check (or even no check at all) is adequate for your own home then why would you feel any compulsion to do more for your tenants?
Remember we're not all like the rogue landlords you see on the telly, just as most electricians aren't rogue traders!

 

[trev]

Lynne, please don't think I'm including you in the category of unscrupulous landlords. The simple fact that you're here asking questions proves to me you're not one of those

 

[Engineer54]

Gas is a far more dangerous utility substance, than electricity!! Not only the carbon monoxide side of things, but it's ability to bring buildings down when things go very wrong.


I can remember some years ago when a gas leak explosion brought down a good section of a high-rise apartment block, i think in the East London area. Also where gas explosions haven't only demolished the house where a gas leak explosion occurred, but the adjoining houses either side, and seriously damaging further houses...


Electrickery hasn't that potential destructive power, so has never been considered in the same light, ledgistration wise, as gas installations. That's not to say it's deadly stuff to mess around with, it is!!

 

[Darkwood]

Me and my missus rent out a house that we used to live in, It was built in 1897 and has had some electrical works done, the board is a very untidy bs3036 and the upstairs lighting circuit is rubber insulation which is perishing and aliminium conductors which are oxidising, junction boxes are cracked, there is no cpc's in the downstairs lighting as it was cut out by the diy'er who fitted the GU10's, there is a spur in the loft which comes off the shower circuit, the shower cable is 6mm but has a 10kw on it, the cooker has no isolator and is wired straight into the 30A ring, ect ect, but no PIR or safety check was asked off me when we rented, but they were adament that the new boiler be checked!

When you said you had some electrical work done was this to address the issues listed or are you renting property in said state. Yes your correct that their is no requirement for you to have an electrical PIR test done or other electrical inspection but you are required to ensure the safety of the electrics; how you go about this is at your discretion and unless your competent to do it yourself and if need be proof that in a court of law then it would be advisable to have a PIR done and any remedials listed as (1) require urgent attention and those marked (2) are usually improvements you could possibly fit in inbetween tenancies, the electrician doing the PIR will advice where necessary on this.
Failure to ensure the electrical safety could end you in serious trouble even manslaughter chargers if the tenant was killed due to your ignorance and the only real way to know the safety of the installation is having a PIR done especially more so with older installations, just because your not asked to provide an electrical cert dosnt mean it can be ignored as you've to comply to another law which in turn means it wise to have a PIR done.