Why is it that...

[D Skelton]

the individual trainees on here seem to have more knowledge than most of the new member 'sparks' posting on here combined?!?

Boils my blood yet makes me proud at the same time.

There is hope for the industry yet!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

No idea?

 

[PEG]

...Yeah,but they're all rushing down the mountain to mount one cow,whilst the "older" members amble down...and do all of them! :bow:

 

[D Skelton]

I think the crux of my question is the word 'sparks' in inverted commas!

I'm not talking about new member electricians, just new member 'sparks' wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more

 

[Engineer54]

Then you've answered your own question as to the Why!! ...lol!!

 

[D Skelton]

Always one to spoil the fun aren't you Eng

 

[Rockingit]

Well, my interpretation of what the OP posted is that they may hold a view in which it becomes a possibility that people who use short crash courses do in fact end up knowing Jack afterwards, and will, obviously, crash shortly thereafter.

 

[D Skelton]

Well, my interpretation of what the OP posted is that they may hold a view in which it becomes a possibility that people who use short crash courses do in fact end up knowing Jack afterwards, and will, obviously, crash shortly thereafter.

I would never imply such a thing Chris!

;-)

 

[ipf]

It's that new fangled 'self belief' thingy. Cocky booggers, confident enough to be 'sparks' without the know how or ability, who ask basic questions and then take objection... when forced on to the back foot, that is.

 

[dingledong]

In 5 years a Electrical Trainee will be a good spark same as the apprentice they only l lack experiance

 

[shanky887614]

In 5 years a Electrical Trainee will be a good spark same as the apprentice they only l lack experiance

yes but in 5 years an aprentice would have at least 8/9 years experience compared to the Electrical Trainee 5 years

 

[dingledong]

Yep ok but with all of them it is lack of experience which if they keep asking and doing they will one day be the old codgers on here
Also some good sparks lack experience in certain fields as they have had no experience

 

[Engineer54]

In 5 years a Electrical Trainee will be a good spark same as the apprentice they only l lack experiance

Only in their wildest dreams, it's not JUST a lack of experience, it's the lack of fundamental technical knowledge/training that that they don't and still wont possess in 5 years time.....

 

[dingledong]

But if they have an interest they will improve of course things go wrong and lessons learnt and things go right because your doing it right
Some people will be cleverer and quicker and pick things up some need to be shown many times but in the end they will get there

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Mr DS.. what have you started.... again :frown2:

 

[Andy78]

But if they have an interest they will improve of course things go wrong and lessons learnt and things go right because your doing it right
Some people will be cleverer and quicker and pick things up some need to be shown many times but in the end they will get there

I'll give you this, you're a cup-half-full kind of guy

 

[dingledong]

Sometimes just sometimes

 

[Slowhand]

In 5 years a Electrical Trainee will be a good spark same as the apprentice they only l lack experiance

An apprentice is mentored by an experienced tradesman who passes on his years of hands on learned knowedge.
A Electrical Trainee is probably on his own and believes the qualification he holds has given him the same knowledge.
So who mentors the Electrical Trainee? Do his customers have to pay him to learn at their expense to get to the standard he should have already achieved?
Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[dingledong]

I would imagine Electrical Trainee would work for a firm after leaving college to get experience but I do agree I do not like people charging top rated and learning on the job that is wrong

 

[Andy78]

I would imagine Electrical Trainee would work for a firm after leaving college to get experience but I do agree I do not like people charging top rated and learning on the job that is wrong

I'm gonna be the cup half empty guy now and say that most of them set up on their own. They are full of false confidence after the brainwashing by the training centres. Either that or they apply for jobs and find it impossible to get one or keep one due to lack of knowledge and experience. They then set up on their own after committing all their money to the worthless course they have just done.

I was chatting with a potential customer last week for example. After they found out I was an electrician they told me about some prospective work at their factory unit. "Can you do three phase stuff then?" they asked. "Yes of course" I replied.
Turned out that when they set their business up in January they had a procession of self employed electricians turn up only to say "Oh it's three phase, I'm not really sure about all this." This led to a frustrated customer and a delayed start to a new business.
All they were after was distribution, simple machine supplies, small power and lighting.

 

[Spoon]

Turned out that when they set their business up in January they had a procession of self employed electricians turn up only to say "Oh it's three phase, I'm not really sure about all this." This led to a frustrated customer and a delayed start to a new business.
All they were after was distribution, simple machine supplies, small power and lighting.

At least the electricians admitted they didn't know 3 phase and left the job alone. A lot better than taking the job on then coming on here asking basic questions.

 

[Rockingit]

In agreement with Eng, I think the biggest difference is that whilst both an apprentice and a Electrical Trainee may be both lacking in experience at the start (dependent on the nature of apprenticeship, of course), the apprentice is doing so from a far superior starting position, with good academic grounding in the principles and theories being applied. A Electrical Trainee is largely thrashing around in the dark and chancing their (and the publics) arm.

 

[Spoon]

Why are we tarring all the Electrical Trainee with the same brush... I like to think that most of them will do the course and use it as a basis for learning more. They will take on jobs that are within there capability. The jobs they are not capable of doing they can learn how to do them for future. Every day is a school day. We are always learning, and so we should. Give the people a chance.
Of course there will be some that ignore the above and do rubbish jobs. Then again there are some time served people who do rubbish jobs or rip people off. The same as any trade.

 

[Andy78]

Why are we tarring all the Electrical Trainee with the same brush... I like to think that most of them will do the course and use it as a basis for learning more. They will take on jobs that are within there capability. The jobs they are not capable of doing they can learn how to do them for future. Every day is a school day. We are always learning, and so we should. Give the people a chance.
Of course there will be some that ignore the above and do rubbish jobs. Then again there are some time served people who do rubbish jobs or rip people off. The same as any trade.

I like to think I'm hung like Eeyore, but the mirror proves me wrong each morning.

Joking aside... I'm no blanket Electrical Trainee basher and each individual deserves a fair chance based on their particular enthusiasm, experience, and capability. I can only comment on my personal experiences though.

 

[Spoon]

The problem you guys will have is you will only go to jobs that have been botched by people. No one will ring you up saying what a great job some Electrical Trainee person did.

Your first bit reminds me of something I sometimes say:
I have a body of a God and I'm hung like a donkey..... unfortunately the God is Buddha and the donkey is Eeyore!

 

[cprfenom]

Mr DS.. what have you started.... again :frown2:

Making Electrical Trainee feel like completely useless idiots again I'm sure. I have the up most respect for proper sparkies as its there fundamental knowledge that impresses me.

I make no apologies for being a Electrical Trainee and acknowledge that I have a long way to go, but I also only take jobs that I know I can do, and have people I can go to if I do no understand or have concerns about something.

Please stop making your comments seem so vast that it implies everyone is so bad. Next time say why is it some apprentices seem to have more knowledge than some of the Electrical Trainee "Sparks"

Too often people see this bashing and will not ask the question. You learn on a job and its the learning that makes a sparks.

 

[Engineer54]

Why are we tarring all the Electrical Trainee with the same brush... I like to think that most of them will do the course and use it as a basis for learning more. They will take on jobs that are within there capability. The jobs they are not capable of doing they can learn how to do them for future. Every day is a school day. We are always learning, and so we should. Give the people a chance.
Of course there will be some that ignore the above and do rubbish jobs. Then again there are some time served people who do rubbish jobs or rip people off. The same as any trade.

Because it's too difficult to to find the one or two out of tens of thousands!!

No-one denies the rogue elements you get with any time served trades, but at least they know they are doing rubbish jobs....

 

[shanky887614]

Making Electrical Trainee feel like completely useless idiots again I'm sure. I have the up most respect for proper sparkies as its there fundamental knowledge that impresses me.

I make no apologies for being a Electrical Trainee and acknowledge that I have a long way to go, but I also only take jobs that I know I can do, and have people I can go to if I do no understand or have concerns about something.

Please stop making your comments seem so vast that it implies everyone is so bad. Next time say why is it some apprentices seem to have more knowledge than some of the Electrical Trainee "Sparks"

Too often people see this bashing and will not ask the question. You learn on a job and its the learning that makes a sparks.

the thing is though.

a lot of the people that have done the Electrical Trainee courses have never held a tool in there life.

fair enough everyone is constantly learning but an apprentice trained electrcian has a basic understanding of the different tools available and multiple ways to get the same thing done.

now not all Electrical Trainee are bad, some actually join a firm as a trainee electrician or work alongside other apprentice electricians and are shown the ropes

 

[dnjr]

I guess we all start somewhere at sometime
i did 2 years night school as I could see the writing on the wall in my job (electronics). When the ---- hit he fan and the company closed I had
qualifications and found a job in a local firm. 2 years on recession hit and I had to go it alone. That was 6 years ago. Still plugging away. Still learning every day. Lucky I have a number of 'time served' mate to ask things I don't know and have found the guys here to be both helpful and on the whole gentle with the less 'educated'
I think what I'm trying to say it sometimes our hands are forced I 're-trained at 40+ and was lucky for the support. Plenty of the Electrical Trainee guys need to re-train and want to do a good job but just need a little help. I've been given the benefit of the doubt here and it's worth it's weight


i guess the above is me pulling a chair into the circle and saying
" hi my name is david and I'm an electrician"

 

[Fox]

I think generally most short course graduates on this forum accept that they don't have the competance after 'qualifying' in order to carry out electrical installation work on a day to day basis. It's nice to see that some recognition is given to the fact that experience within our trade is crucial, not a few days spent inside a cosy training bay stripping twin and earth.

That being said, there are far too many people out there that have been fished out of an economic disaster/immigration influx by bait of training providers promising £40k. The problem then continues as many believe that they are competant within the domestic market, not having a clue what to charge for and devaluing what the trade has ever stood for, both financially and morally.

I don't doubt that there some conscientious short course trainees, but we are not plasterers or tilers where 'basics' can be learnt within 5 weeks (tin hat on). Imagine GP's, lawyers, pilots being able to qualify in this short time - it just wouldn't happen!

To anybody wanting to train as an electrician - It's never too late in life to take the correct route to qualification. There are government grants available, personal loans can be secured if finance is an issue. Sure it will take far longer, the work placement will be contested by hundred's of other applicants and you will earn a poor wage for 3-5 years, but you would be arrogant to take the other route right?

 

[Slowhand]

An important thing about being an electrician is understanding the science behind what you do. Without that its all monkey see monkey do and guesswork.
As our fundamental credo is to prevent fire and electric shock, guesswork shouldn't come into the equation ever.