Why is the term 'COMPETENT' now being used in the 18th of BS7671

[george brown]

Why is the word 'competent' being over used to describe what was once just 'qualified electricians' with experience? Is it to promote proving you are competent in line with 'competent person' schemes of niceic and napit and therefore to subsequently promote those schemes through it's new inclusion in the EIT's 18th? feels like that to me. If you like it, many do, it is still such a subjective term to use and like 'experienced' is also open to personal subjective opinion and not objective at all. I don't like it because it is too closely aligned with the 'competent person' schemes for domestic installers and not everyone subscribes. I think there is some high-jacking of the term and to get everyone using the term which inevitably then becomes the norm right? Condition and make us believe we have to be part of those schemes to be an electrician.

 

[LeeH]

Because qualified doesn’t necessarily make you competent, it’s just a way to demonstrate you may be.

 

[DPG]

As above, just because you've passed an exam. It doesn't mean you're a capable electrician. And you could be experienced, but not be up to date wirh current regs etc. So 'competent' is a good word to use, there's no conspiracy theory.

 

[Rockingit]

Why is the word 'competent' being over used to describe what was once just 'qualified electricians' with experience? Is it to promote proving you are competent in line with 'competent person' schemes of niceic and napit and therefore to subsequently promote those schemes through it's new inclusion in the EIT's 18th? feels like that to me. If you like it, many do, it is still such a subjective term to use and like 'experienced' is also open to personal subjective opinion and not objective at all. I don't like it because it is too closely aligned with the 'competent person' schemes for domestic installers and not everyone subscribes. I think there is some high-jacking of the term and to get everyone using the term which inevitably then becomes the norm right? Condition and make us believe we have to be part of those schemes to be an electrician.

The rot to this topic runs very deep, however it's not entirely the IET's fault.

BS7671 isn't, as you probably know, statute law. It's fundamentally nothing more than a road-map of how to proceed safely. What IS the applicable statute law is the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (EAWR89) which come under the canopy of the Health and Safety at Work act(s) 1974. In which, it doesn't talk about qualifications but uses the term Competent Person "...the person doing the work must have sufficient technical knowledge or experience so as to prevent danger...".

The EAWR also states that "BS7671 is a code of practice which is widely recognised and accepted in the UK and compliance with it is likely to achieve compliance with relevant aspects of the 1989 Regulations [EAWR89]".

So as you can't have two documents that disagree with each other, we're stuck with 'competent person'.

And the rest of the debate requires a heck of coffee and popcorn...

 

[Lou]

welcome to the forum

 

[george brown]

The rot to this topic runs very deep, however it's not entirely the IET's fault.

BS7671 isn't, as you probably know, statute law. It's fundamentally nothing more than a road-map of how to proceed safely. What IS the applicable statute law is the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (EAWR89) which come under the canopy of the Health and Safety at Work act(s) 1974. In which, it doesn't talk about qualifications but uses the term Competent Person "...the person doing the work must have sufficient technical knowledge or experience so as to prevent danger...".

The EAWR also states that "BS7671 is a code of practice which is widely recognised and accepted in the UK and compliance with it is likely to achieve compliance with relevant aspects of the 1989 Regulations [EAWR89]".

So as you can't have two documents that disagree with each other, we're stuck with 'competent person'.

And the rest of the debate requires a heck of coffee and popcorn...

Thanks 'Rockingit', that is something I didn't know. It will be very interesting to see what becomes of the term in future as a framework to the regulatory law, standards bodies and liability for the end user go.

 

[Rockingit]

Thanks 'Rockingit', that is something I didn't know. It will be very interesting to see what becomes of the term in future as a framework to the regulatory law, standards bodies and liability for the end user go.

One of the problems that we have is that there is no regulatory law - there is no legal definition of 'electrician' in the UK unlike the vast majority of the rest of the developed world.

 

[pc1966]

I think part of it comes from the deliberately woolly definitions of what the regs represent. As @Rockingit correctly quotes, the actual statutory law says "BS7671 is a code of practice which is widely recognised and accepted in the UK and compliance with it is likely to achieve compliance with relevant aspects of the 1989 Regulations [EAWR89]".

I have emphasised the use of "likely" as it is quite important: what it tells you is the law requires you to prevent as far as possible danger, and BS7671 has guidance to make that tolerable for today (as past regs also were, but now might be seen as lacking due to how usage and society's expectations have changed), but that blindly following BS7671 might not achieve it. I.e. you need to be competent enough to understand not just what BS7671 says, but what it means and upon which assumptions it is based. There will always be some odd installation that has something not quite fitting the regs, and there the EAWR is expecting the competent person to see that and adapt as needed.

 

[pc1966]

Also the flip side has been mentioned, as there are folks lacking specific formal qualifications who are competent to design/install/test an installation, as well as folks who have reached a pass mark in some exam who are not necessarily able to deal with an unusual situation.

I guess a good indication of competence is knowing when you are not!

 

[brianmoooore]

I guess a good indication of competence is knowing when you are not!

Some of the truest words I've seen on here.