Wireless smoke detectors - advice needed

[naylorpd]

My rented out house (in UK) currently has basic battery smoke detectors in hall and landing, CO detector in utility room (boiler is there) and can't remember the kitchen. My agent is pushing me to provide white goods and, post-Grenfell, I'm nervous about some of these, especially the tumble drier. So I'm looking to upgrade the smoke/fire detection to mains powered, battery back-up, wirelessly linked.

My house is 1980s so I'm hoping that the light fittings have an unswitched live that I could connect the base units to, conveniently near the places where I should be putting the detectors. If not, it will need a general re-think. But I'm not in the UK to check at the moment.

I've been recommended to look at an AICO radiolink system but am struggling a bit with which parts I need. As I understand it, there is a radio base unit that is common to all, and you plug in a detector as required, either basic battery backup or Li rechargable etc.

For example, I'm seeing an Ei168RC base but also an Ei168RC "easi-fit". Is it the same thing? If different, will all the detectors fit either base or do I need to get an easi-fit detector for an easi-fit base?

I also don't quite get which bit has/needs the battery back-up. Do both the Ei168RC base and the detector both have/need battery backup for their respective functionality? Or does the battery back-up in the base also back up the detector? For example, Amazon has both:
Aico Ei 168RC Easi-fit RadioLINK Base 230V + Lithium Battery Back-up
Aico SEI166 EI166RC 160 Series Optical Smoke Alarm c/w Surface Mounting Kit & Lithium Battery
So do those two go together to make one detector, each part with its own battery back-up and wirelessly communicating with others, at about 2x£50 per location?

Which kind of smoke detector is recommended, ionisation or optical? I think that smoke detectors are needed for hall, landing and utility (which has the boiler but also the tumble drier); and heat detector for the kitchen (e.g. Ei164). Also there is an option to link the CO detector into the same system, but only if I can find a source of mains power for it. Can this also go in the middle of a ceiling near the smoke/heat detector?

Some help with model numbers really appreciated. Likely route is for me to check that light fittings have unswitched live before buying everything, then use a forum member to fit.

Thanks

 

[naylorpd]

The smoke alarm and carbon monoxide (England) regulations 2015 apply to rented accommodation. They require a minimum of one detector per floor and CO detection in rooms with solid fuel burning appliances.

This I already have, albeit alkaline batteries and not linked. But it gets really confusing when BS EN 50292 appears to say that you need CO detectors in:

• Rooms that have any fuel burning appliances – such as an open fire, gas cooker or boiler
• Rooms where people spend the most time – such as a living room
• Rooms where people sleep
• Any room that has a flue running through it

In my case that could mean a total of 8 - lounge, dining room (maybe), kitchen (gas hob), utility room (boiler) and all 4 bedrooms (even though there are no sources of combustion, unless my tenants smoke in bed).

That's a huge gap between the legal minimum and best practice - which should surely apply not just to landlords but owner-occupiers too. I live in (own) a 2 year old house and don't think there are CO detectors in any of the bedrooms.

 

[Andy78]

This I already have, albeit alkaline batteries and not linked. But it gets really confusing when BS EN 50292 appears to say that you need CO detectors in:

• Rooms that have any fuel burning appliances – such as an open fire, gas cooker or boiler
• Rooms where people spend the most time – such as a living room
• Rooms where people sleep
• Any room that has a flue running through it

In my case that could mean a total of 8 - lounge, dining room (maybe), kitchen (gas hob), utility room (boiler) and all 4 bedrooms (even though there are no sources of combustion, unless my tenants smoke in bed).

That's a huge gap between the legal minimum and best practice - which should surely apply not just to landlords but owner-occupiers too. I live in (own) a 2 year old house and don't think there are CO detectors in any of the bedrooms.

You are currently complying with the law.

The key to requirements may lie in the dates of the regulations/standards in question. If BSEN 50292:2013 was statutory then surely its requirements would have been included in SAACOR:2015, which is statutory.
The description of BSEN50292 on the BSi website states it is to provide information, so recommendation only.

BSEN 50292 is cited on the Aico website as recommendation. Bear in mind they have a new range of detectors that feature combined smoke and CO detection so any information on their website may slant toward upselling of devices. I will say their information is quite clear though and I rate them as the best manufacturer on the market.

I would always encourage landlords to fit a mains powered system and I always fit the Aico 160 series as they have 10 year sealed lithium batteries. No annoying beeping for tenants as PP3 batteries run down.
For non HMO I would recommend a grade D LD2 system which in a typical house would have detectors in escape routes(landing and hallway) and areas of high risk (heat detector in kitchen and smoke detector in main living room)

It may also be worth checking with your insurance and/or agent to see if they have any minimum grade of system they require.

 

[naylorpd]

So the reply from AICO was:
"As per legislation for rental properties in England, the legal requirement is only one smoke alarm per floor & CO alarms for solid fuel burning appliances. (Meaning in the eyes of the law you could use battery only detectors).

However, best practice would stipulate a Grade D1 (Mains powered, rechargeable battery back-up), LD2 system. This would require you to cover all escape routes, circulation spaces, high risk areas (kitchen) as well as principal habitable room/s (living room, could potentially include bedrooms).

Note – if you have followed best practice & something were to happen one of your tenants in the event of a fire, due to the duty of care for your tenants you would be culpable for this."

So it seems they are not recommending their battery only models!

You are currently complying with the law.

But the last para from AICO is a bit worrying - that even if I go way above the legal minimum (1 CO detector) all the way to "best practice" (about 8) I could still be held liable.

 

[Andy78]

So the reply from AICO was:
"As per legislation for rental properties in England, the legal requirement is only one smoke alarm per floor & CO alarms for solid fuel burning appliances. (Meaning in the eyes of the law you could use battery only detectors).

However, best practice would stipulate a Grade D1 (Mains powered, rechargeable battery back-up), LD2 system. This would require you to cover all escape routes, circulation spaces, high risk areas (kitchen) as well as principal habitable room/s (living room, could potentially include bedrooms).

Note – if you have followed best practice & something were to happen one of your tenants in the event of a fire, due to the duty of care for your tenants you would be culpable for this."

So it seems they are not recommending their battery only models!


But the last para from AICO is a bit worrying - that even if I go way above the legal minimum (1 CO detector) all the way to "best practice" (about 8) I could still be held liable.

Like I say, they are in the business of selling detectors. They are hardly going to recommend the minimum level of protection in a written document.
My own opinion is that the minimum legal requirements do comply but are a poor choice for a conscientious landlord. I would recommend a mains powered interlinked system every time. I don't think that CO detection in every room is needed, but if you do go down this route then stand alone battery models can be purchased for not very many pennies. I would put them in rooms with gas fires, boilers, solid fuel burners, and be happy with that as long as they are regularly checked. Interlinked systems that incorporate CO detection will soon rack up the cost and are probably not needed.

I think the last paragraph from Aico might be a typo ? Seems strange they would tell you that you are absolutely responsible for any injury to a tenant no matter what measures you put in place.

 

[naylorpd]

So here is what I'm thinking...
1) Master bedroom EI208WRF battery CO, wireless - not for any big reason except that it's the main tenant's bedroom and it will go off if anything else in the system triggers
2) Three other bedrooms - nothing (but maybe...another 3 CO detectors and I can say it's BS EN 50292 compliant)
3) Landing EI161e & EI100MRF mains ionisation, wireless
4) Lounge EI208WRF battery CO, wireless and EI650RF battery optical, wireless - not sure if I can pick up mains in the ceiling easily as the light has a plaster surround. But this would be not quite BS 5839-6 compliant
5) Hall EI166e & EI100MRF mains optical, wireless (next to the kitchen)
6) Dining room - nothing (infrequent use, but maybe another CO for BS EN 50292)
7) Kitchen with gas hob EI3028 & EI3000MRF mains CO & Heat combo, wireless (about the same price as 2 separate detectors)
8) Utility with boiler and tumble drier, maybe fridge EI208WRF battery CO, wireless AND EI3024 & EI3000MRF mains heat & smoke combo, wireless. This is the room I am nervous about because of the tumble drier and fridge, shades of Grenfell...
9) EI450 Controller for easy testing

 

[Darkwood]

I would just like to interject with a caution with regards to radio-link detectors, some structural details of buildings can block or interfere with the signal, if your building has any mesh within its build be it pinning insulation back or as I have personally experienced 'steel mesh base plastered ceilings' then you may have no end of issues, setting them up or random alarms when signal is weak or lost.
Luckily steel mesh isn't a common choice so likely you should be good.

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

Hi - I’ve heard that Scotland has approved the 10 year battery powered radio linked detectors for use (?). I’ve not heard anything for England. These detectors would appear to be classified as Type F but there’s no installation showing use of Type F in Table 1 of BS5839-6 2013 that I can see (?). So I’m thinking in England (at least) we still can’t make a standards approved D LD2 system from them(?).

the 10 year battery radio linked are accepted for use in a lot of areas .however I ran into a problem recently with a building standards officer who insisted on all being hard wired
it was lathe and plaster ceiling and no live loop in at lights .

I had to use a new scolmore product to switch the live at the light fitting whilst allowing a permanent live to the heat detector.
RFIM-40B you need a retractive switch as well.

Click | Wiring Accessories and Circuit Protection

Wiring Accessories and Circuit Protection products for the home, office, school & retail sectors. Commercial & domestic sockets and switch solutions including Elucian Consumer Units.

www.scolmore.com

price for switch transmitter and receiver was about £80 however the kitchen had just been decorated and above the floor had been tiled so no access.
so whilst pricey it saved labour damage and redecoration or unsightly trunking.

down side it runs on batteries and they last about 3 - 5 years .

 

[JK-Electrical]

Hi - I’ve heard that Scotland has approved the 10 year battery powered radio linked detectors for use (?). I’ve not heard anything for England. These detectors would appear to be classified as Type F but there’s no installation showing use of Type F in Table 1 of BS5839-6 2013 that I can see (?). So I’m thinking in England (at least) we still can’t make a standards approved D LD2 system from them(?).

Legislation came into effect in Scotland on 1st March this year that permits the use of either mains-operated alarms or tamper proof long-life lithium battery alarms in private rented accommodation. Although I will always install mains-operated alarms where possible, there will be times, however, when battery-operated alarms will take preference. I've already installed around two dozen of the battery-operated alarms and am well-pleased with their performance and ease of installation.

However, new builds still require mains-operated alarms to be installed as do projects such as extensions and attic conversions that are subject to a building warrant. Building Control insist on mains-operated alarms and will not accept battery-operated alarms under any circumstances.

 

[Megawatt]

So here is what I'm thinking...
1) Master bedroom EI208WRF battery CO, wireless - not for any big reason except that it's the main tenant's bedroom and it will go off if anything else in the system triggers
2) Three other bedrooms - nothing (but maybe...another 3 CO detectors and I can say it's BS EN 50292 compliant)
3) Landing EI161e & EI100MRF mains ionisation, wireless
4) Lounge EI208WRF battery CO, wireless and EI650RF battery optical, wireless - not sure if I can pick up mains in the ceiling easily as the light has a plaster surround. But this would be not quite BS 5839-6 compliant
5) Hall EI166e & EI100MRF mains optical, wireless (next to the kitchen)
6) Dining room - nothing (infrequent use, but maybe another CO for BS EN 50292)
7) Kitchen with gas hob EI3028 & EI3000MRF mains CO & Heat combo, wireless (about the same price as 2 separate detectors)
8) Utility with boiler and tumble drier, maybe fridge EI208WRF battery CO, wireless AND EI3024 & EI3000MRF mains heat & smoke combo, wireless. This is the room I am nervous about because of the tumble drier and fridge, shades of Grenfell...
9) EI450 Controller for easy testing

Naylorpd just throwing this out there the NEC requires all bedrooms hallways and kitchen and I know that the UK has different regulations but in the US especially rental properties all bedrooms the hallway, and kitchen must have smoke detectors and must have a backup battery and has to be hard wired plus interlink by wiring and when 1 goes off they all go off. Then when you call for a final inspection he will have a can of smoke to test them, just saying

 

[John Brown]

I recommend ionization, it is more stable and reliable.
I have bought a smoke detector, here is the electronic instruction. Maybe it can give you some clues and ideas. I hope that can help you.

 

[Risteard]

I recommend ionization, it is more stable and reliable.
I have bought a smoke detector, here is the electronic instruction. Maybe it can give you some clues and ideas. I hope that can help you.

Ionisation are not the correct choice in most locations and are generally selected over optical detectors purely because they're cheaper.

 

[telectrix]

Ionisation are not the correct choice in most locations and are generally selected over optical detectors purely because they're cheaper.

agree with that. an inonisation alarm fitted within 10ft. of a kitchen will give endless false alarms whenever cooking bacon or any other ingredient of a proper breakfast.