Spur under bath allowed?

Subby · May 15, 2017

I am a plumber who has just come across this (sockets/spurs under bath) is this permitted?
There are 2 fused spurs and a digital shower unit under the bath. I am concerned as the bath seals have gone causing water to drip onto the fused spurs.
Has the electrics been fitted to regulation? If not then what should have been done?

[ElectriciansForums.net] Spur under bath allowed?

Des 56 · May 15, 2017

The location should be such that a tool is required to access the equipment,it would then be considered out of zones
If that is the case,repair the leak,perhaps provide some extra protection in case of future ingress

Subby · May 15, 2017

According to that logic then there is no problem as the electrics are all behind a bath panel. Just looked a bit dodgy tome thanks.

Upton Sparks · May 15, 2017

1.is it accessible, could you comfortable get to it to work on the Fused Spurs. ? 2. is the likelihood of a leak likely to happen ? 3. is it protected by an RCD?

for a start I don't like it it looks pony, it certainly wouldn't pass mustard in my house.
If you can't work on it then its not accessible, therefore it will not be complaint with the wiring regulation. every point needs to be accessible for purpose of inspection and repair.

Consideration has to be given to other service,ie Water service in close proximity to electrical service, so when ever installing an item ie Fused spur/ Socket, its require to take this in to consideration,
if there is any evidence of water leaking on to the fused spur, I would say this has fail the consideration to other service.
I personally think it fail any way and would have gone for an IP rated Fused spur if had to fit it under the bath. I would of also of built a wooden frame off the wall so it located under the bath and therefore even less likely to have water drip down the wall on to it

As its a bathroom as well it a special location and should be protected by an RCD.

Either way the customer should get themselves an Electrician out to check it over.
well done Plumber!

Midwest · May 15, 2017

Going by the concept, that any water pipe in a house could spring a leak, then all electrical faceplates would need to be suitably IP rated.

My electrical FCU's don't leak electricity, so plumbers (present company accepted) should make sure their baths or kitchen sinks don't leak water! Electrical services are always going to be in close proximity to other services, which includes plumbing & central heating systems.

Whilst the FCU's in this installation doesn't look ideal, there is always a possibility for FCU's/flex outlet plates having to be installed somewhere under a bath, i.e. digital showers or whirlpools baths etc.

Subby · May 15, 2017

That particular area beneath the seal between the bath and wall will tend to leak every few years as the seals rot / fail and will need re sealing. It is one of those jovs that need re doing from time to time. Just as taps start dropping over time and your light bulbs will need changing every so often .

Midwest · May 15, 2017

I put my bath in some ten years ago, mastic has remained intact, and no leaks between bath and wall. Just saying

Going back to my point, what about the luminaires in the floor below the bath, how do we protect them from leaking baths?

Subby · May 15, 2017

The luminaries are not directly below a place liable to leak water.
And fair play you must keep on top of the cleaning if the seals are still in tact.
Don't know what you are "just saying" but one of the most common jobs I get called to is re sealing bath/shower seals
But thanks for your answer although I wouldn't have electrics like that under my bath . And the point is you are sat in a bath full of water is a bit different from a burst pipe soaking a light fitting elsewhere in the house.

Rpa07 · May 15, 2017

Cooking, cleaning - everything is @Midwest speciality. He's an all round fab guy and a cordon bleu chef to boot!

Toneyz · May 15, 2017

Did the occupier know that they were there if a fuse blew/needed to be isolated ? I see no reason if all conditions are met eg accessible risk of external influences however my preferred location would be outside the bathroom.

Octopus · May 15, 2017

My pet hate ... inaccessible points of isolation... I bet the 18th won't sort this out either!

Midwest · May 15, 2017

Subby said:
But thanks for your answer although I wouldn't have electrics like that under my bath . And the point is you are sat in a bath full of water is a bit different from a burst pipe soaking a light fitting elsewhere in the house.

So you have no electrical apparatus/apparel underneath your bath? I think most households do. I've got a down stairs toilet and hallway under mine, full of luminaires, sockets etc. In my experience, the first place a water leak finds, is the hole where a light fitting is, not that I've caused many water leaks!

Midwest · May 15, 2017

Murdoch said:
My pet hate ... inaccessible points of isolation... I bet the 18th won't sort this out either!

If you have a screwdriver, the worlds your oyster. Oysters are very difficult to open, apparently.

Octopus · May 15, 2017

Midwest said:
If you have a screwdriver, the worlds your oyster. Oysters are very difficult to open, apparently.

maybe BUT why out a FCU in such a stupid place?

Toneyz · May 15, 2017

That's if it is known it is there bath panels are not sometimes the easiest to get off without damaging decoration where mastic in

Toneyz · May 15, 2017

Murdoch said:
My pet hate ... inaccessible points of isolation... I bet the 18th won't sort this out either!

no the book will get thicker with things that should be in a separate British Standard of it's own

Risteard · May 15, 2017

Midwest said:
Oysters are very difficult to open, apparently.

I have a good oyster shucker which makes it dead easy.

Subby · May 16, 2017

My pet hate - bath panels that are stuck on with mastic/take adhesive etc . And no I do t have electrics under my bath. I have a room under my bathroom but no electrics under my bath . The electric refs seem a bit lax if that is the case. And before you continue doing your own plumbing, I'd get a professional in I know how rough you sparks are

David M · May 16, 2017

I don't get why anyone would put the FCU's behind the bath (I assume this is the case). If there is no other option but to put the FCU under the bath I would put it in an accessible place just behind the bath panel and in a position that is least likely to get water ingress in the event of a leak.

I do bathroom re-furbs, in my experience there are cowboys in both trades (plumbing & electrics) there are also some decent professional folk who actually take care and consideration.

Midwest · May 16, 2017

Granted an FCU behind a bath is not the most suitable location, for the reason Murdoch highlighted. However, it is possible that there may be circumstances that one would need to be located in such a place, or indeed a flex outlet plate may need to be located there to feed appliance, as previously mentioned.

It is for the designer of the installation, to make these judgements to comply with BS7671. Chapter 51 ~~advices of~~ guidance on, compatibility, external influences and accessibility. Reg 528.3 ~~advices of~~ guidance on proximity to non electrical services. I expect there are others.

My bath hasn't leaked and mastic failed (fingers now crossed

) in the years it has been installed, so if needed I would install an electrical wiring system underneath it, if that was the only option. I'm not quite sure how majority of controls for CH systems would be installed, if close proximity was not acceptable.

Just saying.

PS; I can give tips on applying bath sealant

David M · May 16, 2017

Midwest said:
My bath hasn't leaked and mastic failed (fingers now crossed ) in the years it has been installed, so if needed I would install an electrical wiring system underneath it, if that was the only option. I'm not quite sure how majority of controls for CH systems would be installed, if close proximity was not acceptable.

Just saying.

PS; I can give tips on applying bath sealant

Sounds like you luckily have a well installed bath! The quality of the bath, i.e thickness and construction can make a difference along with the quality of the sealant. Also when we install baths we support all the edges with timber so that any movement between the bath and tile is eliminated.
Most cheap baths are crap construction and so thin they flex all over the place. They also come with 2 poxy angle brackets to fix and support them in place. You would spend a life time re-sealing these unless you fitted them properly to a supporting frame.

Upton Sparks · May 16, 2017

Midwest said:
Going back to my point, what about the luminaires in the floor below the bath, how do we protect them from leaking baths?

NO, it just plan Logic isn't.

If you place a Fused spur under a sink or a bath you must give consideration to the proximity of the water service , its very unlike that a water pipe will spontaneously bust, (but possible) its more likely a plumber/ home owner will work on the pipe thinking he/she has isolated it..... and getting a surprise!, or the sink or bath seals leaking to the area below.

But we give these consideration because past experience has told us sh*t Happens sometimes.
In either of these case you could easily say an IP56 rated fused spur would be required. which is different to must be required.
Given the Photo I would of installed an IP rated box mount under the Bath accessible from the Front cover, without having to lub up an apprentice and throw him in there to do any final terminations we've missed before the plumber ruined my day by installing his bath.

To take it to the level and say well what about the light fitting if a pipe burst or leaks in a floor void is never going to be an electricians fault, that's just bad luck and not reasonably foreseeable, unlike a fused spur installed flush mounted on a wall with a bath above it and its only protection from a bath most likely to be wet when in use is some mastic....... that will leak at some point and is reasonably foreseeable in my option.

Its just Design chaps which = commonsense! ... no?

Midwest · May 16, 2017

So with that concept or idea;

'plumber/ home owner will work on the pipe thinking he/she has isolated it..... and getting a surprise!, or the sink or bath seals leaking to the area below.
But we give these consideration because past experience has told us sh*t Happens sometimes',

then sockets installed under kitchen sinks should be suitably IP rated, controls for CH systems (including pumps & valves) should be suitable IP rated, and even the good old immersion heater switch and element head, should suitably IP rated.

I've seen many a wet boiler system, with FCU and programmer installed adjacent, should these be suitably IP rated?

Midwest · May 16, 2017

David M said:
Sounds like you luckily have a well installed bath! The quality of the bath, i.e thickness and construction can make a difference along with the quality of the sealant. Also when we install baths we support all the edges with timber so that any movement between the bath and tile is eliminated.
Most cheap baths are crap construction and so thin they flex all over the place. They also come with 2 poxy angle brackets to fix and support them in place. You would spend a life time re-sealing these unless you fitted them properly to a supporting frame.

Arrgh I see, I installed it in the correct way then, using timber battens.

Done something right for once

Midwest · May 16, 2017

PPS; as the home owner in this particular example, as well about worrying about the liquid dripping onto my FCU's, I would be keen to rectify the cascade ruining the rest of my property. As it has been suggested, there is a possible solution.

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