Warning Labels inside consumer unit lid

Toneyz · Jun 25, 2017

buzzlightyear said:
and don't for get to put on danger 240 label on , they love them !

not needed

davesparks · Jun 25, 2017

Dave OCD said:
But the warning label refers to colours to 'two versions of BS7671' , the wiring regulations certainly haven't had that reference for 100 years !

I was replying to the comment that we could return to the 'proper' colours soon, not to anything about the label.

stevethesparks · Jun 25, 2017

Dave OCD said:
Well if the end user operates it on the test button regularly as advised to prevent the 'stiction' described by Risteard there's no reason why it won't provide reliable service, a brand new one will inevitably be slow over time if not operated regularly.

sorry but think you are grasping at straws there, you cant be relying on the end user to keep an RCD maintained. If you nailed the 3 monthly test notice on their heads, most would still not do it as it upsets the clocks around the house.

Dave OCD · Jun 25, 2017

I agree Steve, but replacing it after failing just one test won't change anything, the new one will become exactly the same without being operated so IMO it's just a waste of time and money. Would you give an EICR an unsatisfactory overall assessment if the RCD/s were over the permitted time on the first test only ?

Dave OCD · Jun 25, 2017

davesparks said:
I was replying to the comment that we could return to the 'proper' colours soon, not to anything about the label.

Ah ok, but surely it's pretty obvious which 'proper colours' the poster would be referring to, hardly an antiquated system long gone eh ?

telectrix · Jun 25, 2017

RCD test procedure needs rewriting. T1...hit with hammer. T2 connect MFT and press test buttons.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Warning Labels inside consumer unit lid

Midwest · Jun 25, 2017

All this RCD testing; can some of the more competent bods on here, can tell me how confident I can be that my RFC mcb gonna trip, after I've been sticking nails in my sockets terminals like deranged diy'er.

stevethesparks · Jun 25, 2017

Dave OCD said:
I agree Steve, but replacing it after failing just one test won't change anything, the new one will become exactly the same without being operated so IMO it's just a waste of time and money. Would you give an EICR an unsatisfactory overall assessment if the RCD/s were over the permitted time on the first test only ?

Apart from covering my arse and sleeping well (apart from the 03:00 pee every morning) as davesparks has said, how long will it remain operational?
It may seem over the top, but it will be your call on your next eicr or RCD test.
I would note that it failed with the recommendation that it be replaced and IMO it would warrant a C2. It had obviously been sticking, and you have no guarantee that it it will not stick again nor how soon.

davesparks · Jun 25, 2017

Dave OCD said:
Ah ok, but surely it's pretty obvious which 'proper colours' the poster would be referring to, hardly an antiquated system long gone eh ?

My point is more that the colours have changed a few times over the years, and no doubt the same complaints have been made about returning to proper colours.

Risteard · Jun 25, 2017

davesparks said:
A label which states that there are different colours used, but doesn't tell you what those colours are doesn't really help very much for someone who isn't already aware of what the colours are?

It does advise them to verify the function of each conductor though. They have then been warned to check this before working on it, so there is no real need for it to state what the colours mean (or, more accurately, what they should mean if the correct designations have been used).

Risteard · Jun 25, 2017

anthonybragg said:
not needed

And also not correct, as the voltage is 230V!

HandySparks · Jun 25, 2017

davesparks said:
My point is more that the colours have changed a few times over the years, and no doubt the same complaints have been made about returning to proper colours.

Perhaps.
You've got to admit that the current colours are pretty dire. A return to almost anything else would be an improvement.

davesparks · Jun 25, 2017

HandySparks said:
Perhaps.
You've got to admit that the current colours are pretty dire. A return to almost anything else would be an improvement.

Yes they are dire, but I don't think a return to brighter colours is going to happen, or be sensible.
Changing colours again is only going to lead to further confusion, particularly if black and blue were to switch roles again.

westward10 · Jun 26, 2017

Just bring out another notice, "This Installtion Has Conductor Identification to Three Different Versions, or is that two where one maybe the new colours of the old colours before we changed to the new colours which are now old colours because we are now using the new colours which used to be the really old colours of BS7671".

davesparks · Jun 26, 2017

Why don't we give the USA colour scheme a go, black for live (plus red and blue for TP) and white for neutral.
I'm thinking we could have a two year trial to see how everyone gets along with it

Ian1981 · Jun 26, 2017

davesparks said:
Why don't we give the USA colour scheme a go, black for live (plus red and blue for TP) and white for neutral.
I'm thinking we could have a two year trial to see how everyone gets along with it

Yes they are way more advanced than us brits.
Let's ask the how they are getting on with AFDD's

Dave OCD · Jun 26, 2017

Risteard said:
It does advise them to verify the function of each conductor though. They have then been warned to check this before working on it, so there is no real need for it to state what the colours mean (or, more accurately, what they should mean if the correct designations have been used).

Indeed, I often find 3 core SWA on single phase works where the black has been used as neutral and grey cpc. I think this was mainly soon after the changeover when confusion reigned [amongst some anyway

]

westward10 · Jun 26, 2017

I think single phase should be red for line and magnolia for neutral as it is a neutral colour.

Octopus · Jun 26, 2017

Its over 10 years since the colours changed........ anyone who is a competent spark, or has been through formal training in the last 10 years WILL know about the different colours installed in the past, and now being installed.

This is why the dual colour label is unnecessary

westward10 · Jun 26, 2017

It has never been necessary.

davesparks · Jun 27, 2017

Murdoch said:
Its over 10 years since the colours changed........ anyone who is a competent spark, or has been through formal training in the last 10 years WILL know about the different colours installed in the past, and now being installed.

This is why the dual colour label is unnecessary

How about someone who goes through formal training in 50 years time? Will they know the different colours used in the past?
How many people who go through formal training now would be surprised when they encounter the odd but of red white and blue which is still lingering?

Whilst agree that in a single phase installation there is minimal need for it, a three phase installation has a far greater potential for disaster from misidentified conductors.

Karin · Jun 27, 2017

buzzlightyear said:
and don't for get to put on danger 240 label on , they love them !

Ian1981 said:
I wouldn't bother.
Regs requires a warning label when voltage to earth is above 230 volts only.

i can't help but feel that maybe if there were big unremovable labels on all sockets, accessories, etc. yes even making your pretty brushed steel screwless faceplate look ugly, then just maybe people might just have a little more respect for this electricity thing..

andyb · Jun 27, 2017

davesparks said:
How about someone who goes through formal training in 50 years time? Will they know the different colours used in the past?
How many people who go through formal training now would be surprised when they encounter the odd but of red white and blue which is still lingering?

Makes no difference, as soon as an enclosure is opened the different colours are there to see. Whether it's now or 50 years hence, all the label does is inform that there are cables with different colour conductors, not what the colours relate to.

davesparks · Jun 27, 2017

andyb said:
Makes no difference, as soon as an enclosure is opened the different colours are there to see. Whether it's now or 50 years hence, all the label does is inform that there are cables with different colour conductors, not what the colours relate to.

yes, but it works in conjunction with the clear marking at the interface between old and new colours as per 514.1.3 and the guidance of appendix 7. I think that the label serves no useful purpose at the moment, but years in the future it may serve a purpose.

telectrix · Jun 28, 2017

label is extremely useful. can be used to cover up scratches where some ham-fisted apprentice has slipped with his Powerfix screwdriver.

Toneyz

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