What percentage of Sparks voted Brexit?

Judd · Jul 23, 2018

I'm 28 and voted to leave unlike most people my age. I kept my vote pretty quiet as most liberal lefties are quick to make judgement and either label me or others who voted to leave either stupid or racist
I dont like the current form of capitalism ; its skewed, keynesian economics served it's purpose after a war battered Europe, and even after a surge of policy change in the 1980s its still prevalent, and citizens and business are subject to more regulation and centralisation each year.
Even though i voted leave Democracy again has given an undesirable result to pretty much half the populace. Majority rules unfortunately,

andyb · Jul 23, 2018

GBDamo said:
This is another one of my reasons for voting to leave.

Accountability.

For too long on too many issues our politicians have blamed the EU for issues within their remit to resolve, immigration being the main one.

No more can they enact legislation claiming to have their hands tied. Now if they want it they can justify it and put their place in the commons on the line come the next elections.

It’s all about removing their wiggle room and making it easier to hold them responsible.

You're wrong there GB, they will still blame anyone or thing than blame themselves.
When we have a hard brexit, which is looking like the only outcome now after Chequers, and the country suffers as, it will, it will be the EU's fault, the remainers fault, foreigners fault, everyone but theirs.

andyb · Jul 23, 2018

GBDamo said:
Brexit has only been a mess because the careerist vested interests refused to accept the result.

As I said.

Nigel · Jul 23, 2018

Out - and utterly fed up with it all.

andyb · Jul 23, 2018

SparkyChick said:
If wanting our country to have pride in itself again and be proud of the global contributions we've made over the course of history (and continue to make) instead of being a whiney, self-loathing lefty sheep that's been brainwashed into believing all ill's in the world are our fault means I'll be labelled any or all of those things... bring on the labels!

They are the tools of the leftist, designed to silence those they disagree with because it's easier to silence someone by claiming what they are saying is hate speech than it is to formulate a coherent counter argument to much of what is actually being said.

Any examples of this SC?

Nigel · Jul 23, 2018

Electric Magic said:
I voted remain. I like multiculturalism. I think the benefits of the European Convention on Human Rights (limits on big brother etc) outweigh the negatives. Also, the ECHR is a separate thing to being a member of the EU despite what the leave campaign misleadingly claimed, saying this is why jihadis can preach in the UK and we can't chuck them out (as if this is the only or even a good solution post the invention of the internet) is crap. Actually there are all sorts of ways we could legislate against jihadis but the main problem is the reluctance to recognise the problem (e.g. not enough people in power do, if that makes sense). I think security wise the world (not just us) is a lot worse off if the EU goes on to implode. Putin would love to divide and conquer and it would certainly make life easier for terrorist organisations too. As for the arguements about keeping Britain Britain (or England England), the modern romantic nationalism so commonly espoused without questioning why we think what we think originated in Germany (a little ironic given that the cornerstones of British nationalism for many, or at least a commonly espoused sentiment is two world wars and one world cup).

Multiculturalism is a disaster. Why would I want to accept a culture of oppression towards women for example, or a culture that believes people not of your religion are not human? Cultures that do not align with ours should not be welcomed.

andyb · Jul 23, 2018

Midwest said:
I'm an outright rightie, I voted to remain. Think you need to re think that one

You must have off school sick when the lefty brainwashers turned up Midwest, you were lucky.
I must have been there 50 years ago when they turned up at my school, I'm left wing.

SparkyChick · Jul 23, 2018

andyb said:
Any examples of this SC?

Examples of what in particular? Things our people have done that have benefited the globe or lefties shutting people down with claims of say racism or sexism?

Midwest · Jul 23, 2018

andyb said:
You must have off school sick when the lefty brainwashers turned up Midwest, you were lucky.
I must have been there 50 years ago when they turned up at my school, I'm left wing.

Nah, they would of got the can if they turned up at my school.

telectrix · Jul 23, 2018

i'm fed up with all the leftie garbage where anything you say has to be branded racist, sexist, discriminatory ( if that's the right word... oops it's a leftie word), anything without such a label will soon have the snowflakes making one up. like, who ever used the word "gender" 20 years ago? and as for "gender neutral", is that a castrated pig?

Electric Magic · Jul 23, 2018

essex said:
Multiculturalism is a disaster. Why would I want to accept a culture of oppression towards women for example, or a culture that believes people not of your religion are not human? Cultures that do not align with ours should not be welcomed.

I meant in the generic sense, not the political policy of. I don't mean there should be no checks and balances, which is how the policy for a long time played out politically (and to a large extent is still playing out politically).

SparkyChick · Jul 23, 2018

andyb said:
Any examples of this SC?

Rather than wait for an answer to my response question (example of things we've done or lefties shutting people down) I'll simply provide both.

Things Britons have done that have benefited the globe...

Antibiotics
Vaccines
Railways
Modern farming techniques
Many industrial technologies

Lefties shutting people down...

Criticise certain religions and get called a racist despite the fact that religion is an ideology not a race of people
Highlight the fact that men and women are different (there's a shocker), pointing out that these differences can explain why there is gender inequality and you'll be branded a sexist
Object to equality of outcome (which is where we're heading) and insist the best approach is equality of opportunity (which is what we have now) and again, you'll be branded a sexist
Criticise the non-binary bullsh1t and point out that the science is clear, that there are only two sexes and you'll be branded a transphobe

All of those are now considered hate speech and that label is what is used by the left to shut down people who present alternative views.

They are the kinds of labels that end careers and ruin lives. And they are the kind of label that is banded about by the likes of Antifa and the current crop of 'feminists'.

SparkyChick · Jul 23, 2018

telectrix said:
i'm fed up with all the leftie garbage where anything you say has to be branded racist, sexist, discriminatory ( if that's the right word... oops it's a leftie word), anything without such a label will soon have the snowflakes making one up. like, who ever used the word "gender" 20 years ago? and as for "gender neutral", is that a castrated pig?

Absolutely 100% agree. It's pathetic and unfortunately our educational system is churning out indoctrinated leftist sheep at a surprising rate.

Universities, colleges and schools should be filled with ideas and discourse that challenge those involved to think about things, including things they don't want to think about. Instead they are filled with safe spaces and trigger warnings.

As for gender vs. sex.... sex is a biological fact, gender is a social construct and can it seems be varied based on feelings. Unfortunately facts beat feelings everytime.

The left talk about individuals but actually what they are doing is collecting people into groups based on arbitrary facets of their biology/character in order to allow them to gain victim status and thus gain the upper hand on 'normal' people.

andyb · Jul 23, 2018

SparkyChick said:
Examples of what in particular? Things our people have done that have benefited the globe or lefties shutting people down with claims of say racism or sexism?

This bit

SparkyChick said:
''They are the tools of the leftist, designed to silence those they disagree with because it's easier to silence someone by claiming what they are saying is hate speech than it is to formulate a coherent counter argument to much of what is actually being said.''

Most of the posts on this thread come from the right, but I've not seen any from the left on here that try to stop the debate by doing what you say.

If anything it's the right who try to detract from the argument with stupid childish insults.

Such as

SparkyChick said:
''whiney, self-loathing lefty sheep''

telectrix · Jul 23, 2018

andyb said:
This bit

Most of the posts on this thread come from the right, but I've not seen any from the left on here that try to stop the debate by doing what you say.

If anything it's the right who try to detract from the argument with stupid childish insults.

Such as

well, how about wingeing politically ~~correct~~ inept faceless under-acchievers?

andyb · Jul 23, 2018

SparkyChick said:
Rather than wait for an answer to my response question (example of things we've done or lefties shutting people down) I'll simply provide both.

Things Britons have done that have benefited the globe...

Antibiotics

Vaccines

Railways

Modern farming techniques

Many industrial technologies

The list is a lot longer than that SC, I find it sad that you can feel no pride in these achievements and what Britian has done. I know I do, but then I do come from the left.

SparkyChick said:
Lefties shutting people down...

Criticise certain religions and get called a racist despite the fact that religion is an ideology not a race of people

Highlight the fact that men and women are different (there's a shocker), pointing out that these differences can explain why there is gender inequality and you'll be branded a sexist

Object to equality of outcome (which is where we're heading) and insist the best approach is equality of opportunity (which is what we have now) and again, you'll be branded a sexist

Criticise the non-binary bullsh1t and point out that the science is clear, that there are only two sexes and you'll be branded a transphobe

All of those are now considered hate speech and that label is what is used by the left to shut down people who present alternative views.

They are the kinds of labels that end careers and ruin lives. And they are the kind of label that is banded about by the likes of Antifa and the current crop of 'feminists'.

So no examples then?

andyb · Jul 23, 2018

telectrix said:
well, how about wingeing politically ~~correct~~ inept faceless under-acchievers?

Yeah, that sort of thing Tel.

westward10 · Jul 23, 2018

Who would have thought this thread would turn out like this.

andyb · Jul 23, 2018

westward10 said:
Who would have thought this thread would turn out like this.

Quite right Westward, to get this thread back on track.

In.

Midwest · Jul 23, 2018

What have the Romans ever done for us!

[ElectriciansForums.net] What percentage of Sparks voted Brexit?

Midwest · Jul 23, 2018

SparkyChick said:
Absolutely 100% agree. It's pathetic and unfortunately our educational system is churning out indoctrinated leftist sheep at a surprising rate.

I can't agree with you there.

I've, well 'we've' turned out two young men. I have probably got such 'leftie' views as you've mentioned, even though I'm a right winger

I think most parents would kinda indoctrinate their views on their children, but I would say they are right out on there on the right or a bit lefter, not biased by my views or that of any schooling etc.

Think you've been reading too many stories from the media, that do not reflect the views of the masses.

buzzlightyear · Jul 23, 2018

I wonder if oliver cromwell turning in his grave when we gave our laws to the T@@Ts in Brussels. Lol , just thinking about the song bye bye baby by by .by the the bay city rollers .

SparkyChick · Jul 23, 2018

andyb said:
Most of the posts on this thread come from the right, but I've not seen any from the left on here that try to stop the debate by doing what you say.

Firstly... no, you've not seen any one trying to stop debate in this thread because most people on here are adult enough to have a conversation. They are capable of listening to other peoples opinions.

Secondly... the right. You've assumed I'm on the right. Next stop, ----, calling at alt-right and far-right!

andyb said:
If anything it's the right who try to detract from the argument with stupid childish insults.

Really???

Better to be called a whiny leftist sheep than be branded a racist, sexist or anti-semite for example. Being known as a leftist sheep isn't going to ruin your life but being branded the later has a proven detrimental effect.

Just out of interest, would being able to justify my choice of words elevate them from 'stupid childish insult' to 'opinion'?

andyb said:
The list is a lot longer than that SC, I find it sad that you can feel no pride in these achievements and what Britian has done. I know I do, but then I do come from the left.

You're putting words in my mouth... did I say I have no pride in our country? Quite the opposite. And the list is hardly exhaustive it's just a few, in my opinion, well chosen examples that have had a major positive global impact.

andyb said:
So no examples then?

They are examples of the tactics used by the left to silence those they disagree with.

If you want a real world example, I nearly lost my career because I was branded a racist by my boss (herself a minority - the L of LGBT - who's personal mission was to address the inequality in the company I was working for at the time) because I highlighted how an individual she insisted on interviewing had links (as in he held some fairly senior positions) to an organisation that had since been banned by the government for it's connections to terrorism and another that was under investigation for financial irregularities (read fraud) to the tune of £250,000 of government money. Shortly thereafter I was also accused of physically assaulting her.

Midwest said:
I can't agree with you there.

And that's fine. Because what I wrote was my opinion. Do I think everyone who goes into university will end up an indoctrinated whiny leftist sheep? No. But there is a significant number who do who go on to form the small vocal minority that are driving the politically correct agenda.

An agenda that is slowly but surely curtailing our ability to have discussions about things we really do need to discuss as a nation.

Midwest said:
Think you've been reading too many stories from the media, that do not reflect the views of the masses.

I don't pay any attention to the mainstream media because I'm sick and tired of hearing about gender inequality, the promotion of things like non-binary genders and their complete and utter lack of reporting on some truly horrifying stories of events from around Europe and the wider world.

johnduffell · Jul 23, 2018

If you want to get anywhere together, first you have to work out what you have in common, then build on that too over come differences.
I think perhaps the two groups, however you want to characterise them agree that the world is full of good people trying to do their best in the world.
Where i think things diverge, is where people are unable to have the life they want due to factors beyond their control.
People who benefit from diversity etc are obviously more likely to support that, but people who are harmed by it are not going to be inclined to support it.
I don't want to say too much in case i distract from my point, but I'm basically saying we are mostly good people just trying to get along.
The rest, unfortunately ended up in charge of the world's biggest countries and economies, i can't see any normal well adjusted person going for that job!

andyb · Jul 23, 2018

SparkyChick said:
Firstly... no, you've not seen any one trying to stop debate in this thread because most people on here are adult enough to have a conversation. They are capable of listening to other peoples opinions.

I said no one from the left, plenty of childish insults from the right.

SparkyChick said:
Secondly... the right. You've assumed I'm on the right. Next stop, ----, calling at alt-right and far-right!

You and JK brought the word ---- in this thread SC

SparkyChick said:
Really???

Better to be called a whiny leftist sheep than be branded a racist, sexist or anti-semite for example. Being known as a leftist sheep isn't going to ruin your life but being branded the later has a proven detrimental effect.

I don't mind being called a whiny leftist sheep SC, who called who a racist, sexist or anti-semite?

SparkyChick said:
Just out of interest, would being able to justify my choice of words elevate them from 'stupid childish insult' to 'opinion'?

No, whiny leftist sheep is a silly childish insult, that's all.
Not to say you dont have an opinion.

SparkyChick said:
You're putting words in my mouth... did I say I have no pride in our country? Quite the opposite. And the list is hardly exhaustive it's just a few, in my opinion, well chosen examples that have had a major positive global impact.

Er

SparkyChick said:
If wanting our country to have pride in itself again and be proud of the global contributions we've made

You certainly intimated that you can't have pride in your country untill we leave the EU.

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