Dangerous installation certificates

Gavin John Hyde · Feb 9, 2019

Reading another thread a moment ago about EICRS and lack of CPC and whether you should disconnect the circuit.
How many people actually issue dangerous installation certificates? an example of the 18th ed from NICEIC is below.
I have issued a couple where i have attended and found things dangerous, ie shower with no CPC or bodged circuits.
Customer doesn't want to pay for repairs as in there mind it still works so why do anything about it!
I know as soon as I was out the door the customer would turn it back on. So issue one to cover myself. This day and age I think it pays to cover your backside and it could be argued that if carrying out an EICR then it might pay to leave one of these with the person in the property if its dangerous and give copies to others or fix to consumer unit aswell.
Thoughts?

[ElectriciansForums.net] Dangerous installation certificates

Starjack · Feb 9, 2019

I have also used the very same notice twice on eicr's

45140 · Feb 9, 2019

I think the Form is excellent however the as yet legally untested element is what authority/responsibility the Inspector has to actually disconnect the clients equipment.

Legally the Duty Holder is the Occupant or Landlord and that is how the guidance is written. An electrical inspector is acting in an advisory capacity only, again something I believe is made clear in BS7161.

My reading and understanding is that the only requirement on the Inspector is to bring the matter to the attention of the Duty Holder. To disconnect could well be judged as criminal damage and you could be disconnecting equipment that is necessary for someone's health or safety, such as medical equipment.

The only person with a legal right to disconnect is the DNO and I would suggest that depending upon the response of the Duty Holder that the Inspector if he feels there is imminent danger should call on the DNO and ask them to inspect and decide whether or not they disconnect the whole supply.

The Ghost · Feb 9, 2019

I have used the danger notice in a Chinese restaurant and disconnected the whole supply to the property in such a way that it would not be possible to switch it back on. Irregardless of what is and is not permissible in these matters I took it upon myself to do so as the danger present was such that an immediate risk of fire and or death was imminent. They went into a frenzy as there were to open at 5. p.m. that night. Tough! By the time I attended the power was off anyway. The DNO had been out twice and had unbelievably replaced the main fuses twice and they had really blown! I had the power on by the next day and used the pub next door with a couple of trailing lights and extensions to run their kitchen by the way so it was not complete lights out.

The Ghost · Feb 9, 2019

@45140 what is this strange BS7161 I know something similar to it?

45140 · Feb 9, 2019

Sorry brain fade I mean of course BS 7671

richy3333 · Feb 9, 2019

I issue danger notices on a regular basis. Not our place to turn the power off but ‘rectus protectus’.

Andy78 · Feb 9, 2019

Yes I have issued quite a few danger notices. Some as arse covers until I carried out agreed work, some as genuine warnings to stubborn customers.

Some for lack of installation earth. I was just digging for work though as the last 5 decades had been safe enough according to the householders that never called me back.

Gavin John Hyde · Feb 9, 2019

Andy78 said:
Yes I have issued quite a few danger notices. Some as arse covers until I carried out agreed work, some as genuine warnings to stubborn customers.

Some for lack of installation earth. I was just digging for work though as the last 5 decades had been safe enough according to the householders that never called me back.

I do find though that with the notices customer thinks you are trying to fleece them out of money regardless. It is a way of encouraging the customer to get work done.
They cant see or dont understand the issue. It either works or it doesnt. No in between for a lot of them.
The age we live in though means you got to cover yourself.

Fitzy · Feb 9, 2019

“Well, when I checked out the fault via Google, it said it was ok, no need to worry about it, that’s what the fuses/mcb’s are for, aren’t they?”

dmxtothemax · Feb 10, 2019

I would imagine that if you advised the customer it is not safe, and you issued them with documentary evidence saying so, if they decide not to follow your advise, then it becomes their responsibility. You cannot force them, you can only advise them.