Advice wanted - unhappy with rewire

Sarah123 · Feb 23, 2019

Hi all

Hoping I could get some independent advice on here. We've just bought our first property and had to get a full house rewire on the property (3 bed semi). Our electricians had finished the work within 2 days (2 electricians working on it). When asked when they were coming back, they said they didn't need to come back for a second fix as they'd finished it all. As we didn't know any better, we assumed all was fine and paid up because that said they wouldn't give paperwork till payment was made.

Since then, we have had a few issues. Our plasterer has been really surprised at the poor standard of work - they have had to plaster around all sockets and spotlights in kitchen.

1. The holes made to put in the sockets are generally quite a bit larger than the face of the external socket casing.
2. One of the sockets had a loose wire that was not connected when the plasterer was plastering around.
3. Another socket melted the builder's plug (smoke coming out as well), but didn't activate the trip switch.
4. An armoured cable they put in to light the garage is coming out of the consumer unit and through the floorboards in the bedroom in front of (rather than behind) the skirting board.
5. No paperwork 3 weeks after despite chasing him for this before everything else happened.

Would really appreciate any feedback as not sure if these are common or we really are within our rights to be taking this further? We tried contacting the electrician a couple of days ago, but he's not able to come till Monday evening, but his general response is telling me that he's blaming the plasterer's work.

Thanks!

Blaspark · Feb 23, 2019

Bob Geldoff1234 said:
Hold on there mate.A bit OTT.So for screwing accessories on too early they need reporting to numerous organisations for this heinous crime? Get a grip.It's posts like this that get my goat

It's unsafe work and taking advantage of unsuspecting members of the public that get my goat. I'm well aware of the standards on this forum. Your attitude doesn't surprise me

Leesparkykent · Feb 23, 2019

Bob Geldoff1234 said:
Hold on there mate.A bit OTT.So for screwing accessories on too early they need reporting to numerous organisations for this heinous crime? Get a grip.It's posts like this that get my goat

Spot on.

Blaspark · Feb 23, 2019

Leesparkykent said:
Spot on.

You can say what you like. Unsafe is not allowed. You guys are acting like bullies. The electrical work is dodgy and she's out of her depth.

Blaspark · Feb 23, 2019

You can disagree all you like but show me how that's OK. I can show you where it's not acceptable.
The standards on this forum are ridiculous.

Leesparkykent · Feb 23, 2019

Blaspark said:
It's unsafe work and taking advantage of unsuspecting members of the public that get my goat. I'm well aware of the standards on this forum. Your attitude doesn't surprise me

I take it the unsafe bit is the fact the line conductor has come out? For all you know the plaster could of been yanking it around left, right and center. Because it’s been 2nd fixed before its been plastered you think it’s acceptable to report the contractor to the their scheme and also the local council....Have a word

Blaspark · Feb 23, 2019

Andy78 said:
The second fix has been done. That is the connection of all the accessories, testing, and energising.

This should not have been done ahead of the plastering but that is down to what arrangements were in place between you and all trades.

You should have received an EIC and building control paperwork.... keep pestering them for this, all in written form, and if they ignore you it's time to get in touch with trading standards and/or the scheme that your electrician belongs to.

Why do I get called dumb for stating what this fella and any reasonable person would state

Deleted member 105166 · Feb 23, 2019

Don’t jump the gun, the guy is coming back on Monday to see his customer and hopefully rectify her concerns.

Leesparkykent · Feb 23, 2019

TonyMitchell said:
Don’t jump the gun, the guy is coming back on Monday to see his customer and hopefully rectify her concerns.

Exactly that.

Blaspark · Feb 23, 2019

What's the term we often use for competent person schemes on this board and in the industry generally? Is it scam?
It wasn't done right. It was unsafe. If it was tested when it was finished where are the certificates. If there's no certificate did he inform her, in writing to cover his back, not to switch it on?
Does safe locking off include for example a lock?

Leesparkykent · Feb 23, 2019

Blaspark said:
What's the term we often use for competent person schemes on this board and in the industry generally? Is it scam?
It wasn't done right. It was unsafe. If it was tested when it was finished where are the certificates. If there's no certificate did he inform her, in writing to cover his back, not to switch it on?
Does safe locking off include for example a lock?

why shouldn’t it of been switched on, if all tested and screwed back?

Spoon · Feb 23, 2019

Leesparkykent said:
For all you know the plaster could of been yanking it around left, right and center.

From the pic, it wouldn't have taken much for the cable to come out, as it looks like it's only had connection at the tip of the wire.

[ElectriciansForums.net] Advice wanted - unhappy with rewire

Lets see what he has to say on Monday.

Leesparkykent · Feb 23, 2019

Spoon said:
From the pic, it wouldn't have taken much for the cable to come out, as it looks like it's only had connection at the tip of the wire.

View attachment 47971

Lets see what he has to say on Monday.

Yes but could of also tested fine and it was just a poor termination?

Blaspark · Feb 23, 2019

Leesparkykent said:
Yes but could of also tested fine and it was just a poor termination?

Was this your job or something?

Bob Geldoff1234 · Feb 23, 2019

I'm off to get some popcorn

as I think this thread will be going for a while

Leesparkykent · Feb 23, 2019

Blaspark said:
Was this your job or something?

No.....why?

KEV 1 N · Feb 23, 2019

Many moons ago as an apprentice, I had my spell on “house Bashing” Four of us, 1 electrician, 2nd and 3rd year apprentices and a labourer. We could rewire a house in a day, mostly done by 2/3 o’clock, some times we were there till 8pm!
We would chop out, fix boxes, wire, cap then 2nd fix in the day, the plasterer would follow the next day....this was standard on Housing Association properties. Not ideal but it is done that way.
So 2 electricians over two days is about the same pace.

The chasing isn’t the best but it certainly isn’t bad.

The melted socket is likely to be caused by what has been plugged into it (plasters 110v transformer would be my guess)

The loose wire is a bit more worrying and is probably down to rushing. Proper testing should have detected that issue.

The SWA going in front of skirting.....who knows why, perhaps there was something obstructing the route behind the skirting or being in a rush it was quicker to put it in front

westward10 · Feb 23, 2019

Blaspark said:
Was this your job or something?

I have seen some stupid comments but that takes the biscuit.

Leesparkykent · Feb 23, 2019

westward10 said:
I have seen some stupid comments but that takes the biscuit.

Bit of a school boy comment wasn’t it....Thought I was back in the playground

Deleted member 105166 · Feb 23, 2019

If a customer is unhappy with any trade’s work or service, the first course of action is to approach the company or individual to discuss and agree remedial work. I don’t understand why @Blaspark is suggesting reporting the electrician to their scheme, the council, etc. particularly when the sparky has already arranged to go back on site. If he/she could not be contacted or had been dismissive that would be a different case, but that’s not what Sarah has outlined here. Anyway, even if the scheme were notified, their first course of action would be to contact their member, whom would rightly say the job is not yet finished and there’s a visit already arranged with the customer for Monday. No further action is needed at this stage.

The Ghost · Feb 23, 2019

Hi @Blaspark you do have a point but this is not a war. I think you are saying exposed live parts/sockets should not be left for the client to deal with. You are correct. Is that right?

Cid · Feb 24, 2019

Good plasterers would normally unscrew the accessories and cover it up with masking tape before plastering.

Lucien Nunes · Feb 24, 2019

Proper testing should have detected that issue.

The line conductor that pulled free probably won't have shown up in tests. The screw seems to have indented the copper (albeit in the wrong place) so there would have been a solid metal-metal connection when the testing was done. It was mechanically weak because it wasn't inserted far enough into the terminal.

The problem with this issue is that while it is probably a one-off, it could also point to a bad termination technique on the part of one of the installers, who might simply not be in the habit of tug-testing etc and might have done the same in other fittings.

The burnt socket could be anything, possibly the plug that was inserted. If the front of the socket is more burnt than the terminals at the back, it wasn't the electricians' fault. If the terminals are badly burnt, I would suspect another inadequately inserted cable and would then be keen to have all accessories checked. OP- you wouldn't necessarily expect anything to trip due to bad contact that causes overheating. The MCB would trip in the event of a short-circuit, and the RCD in the event of a leakage e.g. shock to a person. Means to detect this kind of fault (AFDDs) are just being tentatively introduced. They have to be pretty sophisticated to tell the difference between a heater heating up and a plug heating up!

telectrix · Feb 24, 2019

2 days, 2 blokes. rushed job, i'd have allowed a week for 2 skilled sparks to do the job right. ( used to be 4 days, but at 72 i is slowing down a bit, knees and back refusing to obey brain ).

Risteard · Feb 24, 2019

KEV 1 N said:
Proper testing should have detected that issue.

I wouldn't agree there. To be honest inspection would be far, far more likely to pick that up than testing. If there was fortuitous contact between the conductors during testing there is no likelihood of finding that through test readings. It's possible to pick up poor contact resistance but it really depends how the two conductors are seated. If the contact is good between them (though not securely screwed together) I don't think passing 200mA through them will tell you much.

telectrix · Feb 24, 2019

basically old scholl like what i was taught. wriggle and pull.if it don't come out, it's good. sod these digital devil's overpriced MFTs. eyes have been finding faults long before the LCD screen with half the characters missing were invented.