Is this a C2 or C3

pokrok · May 30, 2021

Official Use ONLY

[ElectriciansForums.net] Is this a C2 or C3

MJPD29 · May 30, 2021

Hard to see but I would say c2 basic insulation outside of enclosure

westward10 · May 30, 2021

What do you think.

Dartlec · May 30, 2021

Is that standard electrical tape? or self-amalgamating tape?

Assuming that the sheath has been removed beneath it, then it is not suitable as replacement insulation (despite the name), so the issue would be basic insulation visible outside of enclosure, which is usually a C2.

However, if this was up in the ceiling, and there were no metal parts that it might touch, I might well consider this a C3, as it's not accessible to touch...

Pretty much every new build in the last 20 years probably has this in every downlight though (usually without the tape).... unless they've since been replaced by someone with the time to do things properly....

westward10 · May 30, 2021

The tape makes no difference it is not suitably enclosed.

LukeD · May 30, 2021

As it stands C2 . But the reality is there will be millions like this in the Uk !

westward10 · May 30, 2021

LukeD said:
As it stands C2 . But the reality is there will be millions like this in the Uk !

The UK is a C2 then?

Dartlec · May 30, 2021

westward10 said:
The tape makes no difference it is not suitably enclosed.

Agreed - though if it was self amalgamating tape (that couldn't be removed without a tool), that would make things slightly different would it not? Looks more like tape I agree....

Dartlec · May 30, 2021

From BPG4:

(C2) Sheath of an insulated and sheathed nonarmoured cable not taken inside the enclosure of an accessory, such as at a socket-outlet or lighting switch, where the unsheathed cores are accessible to touch and/or likely to come into contact with metalwork. (Note: Code C3 would apply if the unsheathed cores are not accessible to touch nor likely to come into contact with metalwork)

Dustydazzler · May 30, 2021

Typical builders installation job, i guess atleast they joined the earths and didn’t just cut them off like 99.9999% of builders normally do

inspectors hat on C2

real work hat on C3 as it’s up in the ceiling void and under normal circumstances unlikely to ever be touched by anyone

telectrix · May 30, 2021

Dartlec said:
From BPG4:

(C2) Sheath of an insulated and sheathed nonarmoured cable not taken inside the enclosure of an accessory, such as at a socket-outlet or lighting switch, where the unsheathed cores are accessible to touch and/or likely to come into contact with metalwork. (Note: Code C3 would apply if the unsheathed cores are not accessible to touch nor likely to come into contact with metalwork)

so that makes it a C2 as shown in the OP's pic., but a C3 when shoved back in the ceiling? push it back up andvcharge £100 for remedial work.

Dartlec · May 30, 2021

telectrix said:
so that makes it a C2 as shown in the OP's pic., but a C3 when shoved back in the ceiling?

Guess so! Though there is the argument that if the downlight itself is metal (and not earthed), then maybe it should be a C2 if either of the live conductors could touch it....

There is also this:

Unenclosed electrical connections, such as at luminaires. (Such a defect can contribute to a fire, particularly where extra-low voltage filament lamps are used)

Which would mean always a C2 if the terminal blocks were outside the enclosure I guess....

I don't think I've ever seen a new build with downlights that aren't like this picture (minus the tape) though

brianmoooore · May 30, 2021

telectrix said:
so that makes it a C2 as shown in the OP's pic., but a C3 when shoved back in the ceiling?

As above, unless the fitting should be earthed (and as appears to be the case, isn't), then back to C2.

littlespark · May 31, 2021

Not sure if it’s the same model of fitting, but the little black jointbox should be clipped to the metal plate sticking out to the left. This plate may also have a threaded hole that should take an earth terminal screw.

So by design, the fitting should have been earthed.... but isn’t. C2

Other fittings may be double insulated (look for a square within a square logo)
If so, then C3, basic insulation outside enclosure.

Dustydazzler · May 31, 2021

Isn’t basic insulation outside of the box a C2 , potentially dangerous as their is not mechanical protection on the single cables

Is this a C2 or C3

pokrok

MJPD29

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westward10

Dartlec

westward10

LukeD

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westward10

Dartlec

Dartlec

Dustydazzler

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telectrix

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Dartlec

brianmoooore

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littlespark

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Dustydazzler

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