failed EICR, please can you advice

timhoward said:

I'd nicely ask him exactly which regulation the current arrangements under the sink are violating. If you like, stick a picture up here of under the sink, then you can legitimately say you have sought a 2nd opinion.
If there's currently a leak or broken seal anywhere causing them to get regularly wet, then maybe external influences could be reasonably cited, otherwise I suspect this is one that 'looks wrong' to some people's eyes but isn't actually wrong.


Stick a photo up if unsure.
A google for "bathroom zones" should help explain this.
Zones 0 and 1 needs spray proof lights (IP55/65). Any gaps in the fitting or around the bulb usually indicate they are not spray proof. You are looking for a design that looks enclosed.
Zone 2 needs splash proof lights (IP44 or higher). I find this harder to determine, many people just use the spray proof lights here too.
If it's a taller than 2.25m ceiling, or the fitting is outside zone 2 then there are no restrictions.

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ssn1122 said:

It passed the last EICR so not sure what has changed

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• Regulations. While the wiring regs are not retrospective (unlike fire safety, e.g. cable collapse factors) an EICR is always done using the current regulations and guidance, with older installations judged by the risk due to practices of that time.
• Risk. While wiring regulations were always "safe enough" at the time they were in use, what is seen as acceptable risk changes with time and with modern usage patterns (as well as the occasional tradgedy focusing on some specific point).
• Ageing. You might have some cable or accessory that was fine 5 or 10 years ago, but now has got to the point where it is not longer OK.
• Environment. Changes to the use of a room, etc, can place electrical equipment in to a different risk region.
• Judgment. Many aspects of an EICR involve the judgement of the electrician looking at an installation and try to combine all of the above in to a code C1/C2/C3/none for the report. That has both a personal aspect, as well as an aspect based on what guidance they use (e.g. guidance from NECIEC has some differences from the Best Practice Guide #4)

westward10 said:

I didn't see the cracked sockets comment but it doesn't seem so blurry this morning

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Julie. said:

I take a completely different view on this report, as to me it raises a number of concerns re. the person doing the report.

Firstly it indicates that rcd is required for fault protection - why? All zs appear to be within limits.

But then again it uses the hot (reg) limits for max zs, and cold measured zs

It states waterproof (ip x7) required in bathroom etc - not required by the regs unless it genuinely is within zone 0 , other than that ip x4 is required, which is normal fittings.

These are serious misunderstandings of the regulations and testing and inspection in general, can we therefore believe the other observations - for example socket within 3m of zone 1 - is the bathroom that big? If the socket is outside of the room 701.32.1 applies.

Also waterproof required under sink (sensible but no regulation demanding it)

As for the rcd fail, perhaps this is right, but I am somewhat doubtful that the testing was completed correctly based on the misunderstandings above, did he/she test on the correct setting?

OK, there are a number of potentially valid observations, cracked sockets etc, cpc missing in switch etc.

And it does look like there is an incorrect mcb fitted.

However, I would be concerned with the workscope suggested, I would engage a different electrician to replace the valid sockets, tighten up the loose ones etc and investigate the validity of the suspicious observations, which may result in a new board.

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ssn1122 said:

Thanks Julie , he has quoted £1000 to do all the work so wanted to ask for some advice on here .

Also can you explain what do you mean by socket within 3m of zone 1 . Should it be more than 3m away ?

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timhoward said:

Just to add that the report says:
"Low voltage (e.g. 230 volt) socket-outlets sited at least 3 m from zone 1 (701.512.3) Fan isolation switch in bathroom and on-suite. x2 in total"
The first section was auto-completed from ticking a box elsewhere. I still think it actually refers to having fan isolators in zone 2. The "socket" could be a complete red herring, due to the wrong schedule item being chosen.

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westward10 said:

I agree but if these isolators are in zone 2 it wouldn't matter if they are waterproof, whatever that is or sprinkled with fairy dust they shouldn't be in zone 2. The report however isn't clear where they are and outside of this zone they can be standard isolators.

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timhoward said:

Agreed. It's definitely not an optimal write up...
btw the 'waterproof' thing was about lights and sockets under the kitchen sink - different items.

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westward10 said:

It mentions waterproof isolators in #1. The house will end up looking like a plant room

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brianmoooore said:

No zone around the bathroom basin in my version of the 18th!

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westward10 said:

There has never been a zone surrounding the sink but a lot of pics online show one.

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brianmoooore said:

I'm well aware of that, but it's the kind of thing that gives rise to spurious coding on EICRs - the subject of this thread.

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timhoward said:

Do a google image search for "bathroom zones", and 18 of the first 20 results show one!
It takes concerted effort to find a correct diagram unfortunately.

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timhoward said:

Do a google image search for "bathroom zones", and 18 of the first 20 results show one!
It takes concerted effort to find a correct diagram unfortunately.

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pc1966 said:

The 60cm seems quite specific though, is that some general guidance for sinks instead of bathroom-specific zones?

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pc1966 said:

The 60cm seems quite specific though, is that some general guidance for sinks instead of bathroom-specific zones?

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westward10 said:

What happened one site produced the drawing with the zone around the sink. A second site who wanted to put a pic on their site Googled it and up came the zoned sink drawing, they copied it. Can you see where this is going.

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Julie. said:

When you have a bath or shower, the space around is defined by zones 0, 1 & 2, and there are different requirements for ingress protection (waterproofness), types of equipment etc for each zone.

There is also a regulation which prevents having a standard socket outlet within 3 metres.

However this only applies within the room itself, or if there isn't a barrier (door, window, hatch etc).

So you can have an outlet directly outside the bathroom door for example, but if you remove the door then it would be prohibited.

If the shower is contained within a proper enclosure (not just a leaky cubicle), again ok within 3 metres, (but not within zone 2), remove the shower enclosure then prohibited etc.

View attachment 93696

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timhoward said:

Just to add that the report says:
"Low voltage (e.g. 230 volt) socket-outlets sited at least 3 m from zone 1 (701.512.3) Fan isolation switch in bathroom and on-suite. x2 in total"
The first section was auto-completed from ticking a box elsewhere. I still think it actually refers to having fan isolators in zone 2. The "socket" could be a complete red herring, due to the wrong schedule item being chosen.

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Julie. said:

When you have a bath or shower, the space around is defined by zones 0, 1 & 2, and there are different requirements for ingress protection (waterproofness), types of equipment etc for each zone.

There is also a regulation which prevents having a standard socket outlet within 3 metres.

However this only applies within the room itself, or if there isn't a barrier (door, window, hatch etc).

So you can have an outlet directly outside the bathroom door for example, but if you remove the door then it would be prohibited.

If the shower is contained within a proper enclosure (not just a leaky cubicle), again ok within 3 metres, (but not within zone 2), remove the shower enclosure then prohibited etc.

View attachment 93696

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