All devices on 3phase board tripped simultaneously

Chris White · Sep 19, 2022

A customer recently lost power to part of their electrical installation. On arrival I found all IEC 60947-3 devices had supposedly tripped - including the main switch rated at In 400A. Excluding the possibility of someone tapering with the board, can anyone think of any other reason why this may have occurred?

westward10 · Sep 19, 2022

Do you mean 60947-2. All devices had tripped, single and/or triple-pole.

freddo · Sep 19, 2022

Extreme over voltage? Does the connected equipment still work?

Chris White · Sep 19, 2022

Sorry for the typo, yes 60947-2. There were 6 three phase/3pole devices, 5 single pole devices and the main 3 pole switch. All of which I found in the off position. No sign of overheating/overload or smell, and I was onsite within 10 minutes of power loss.

Yozza19 · Sep 19, 2022

I would say if the main switch was of someone has tampered with the board

westward10 · Sep 19, 2022

I assume the main switch is also 60947-2.

ipf · Sep 19, 2022

With you saying part of the installation, is it a sub board?

Whatever, very a strange for all breakers to have tripped and the main switch to be in the off position.
Sounds like a manual job, to me.

Chris White · Sep 20, 2022

freddo said:
Extreme over voltage? Does the connected equipment still work?

Chris White · Sep 20, 2022

Yep, everything still works and nothing else tripped on any of the other distribution boards down stream of this board.

Chris White · Sep 20, 2022

ipf said:
With you saying part of the installation, is it a sub board?

Whatever, very a strange for all breakers to have tripped and the main switch to be in the off position.
Sounds like a manual job, to me.

It's actually the main board for one of the two three phase supply's coming into the building. I agree that it sounds like someone has tampered with it; however, my customer is adamant this could not have happened.

westward10 · Sep 20, 2022

Is the main switch 60947-2 or 60947-3.

pc1966 · Sep 20, 2022

Is the main switch just a switch so it has to be manually operated, or is it some MCCB that could have tripped due to an electrical incident?

timhoward · Sep 20, 2022

Chris White said:
nothing else tripped on any of the other distribution boards down stream of this board.

Leaving the main switch aside, unless something simultaneously affected every single distribution circuit between this board in question and the downstream boards, it surely has to be manual operation.

What sort of cables are feeding the downstream boards, are they mechanically protected?
I have once found several circuits all chafed on poorly installed metal trunking which then got hit causing it to cut into all of them.
I think I'd IR a couple of the distribution circuits, rule out cable damage, and declare that the only logical reason is manual operation.

nicebutdim · Sep 20, 2022

westward10 said:
Do you mean 60947-2. All devices had tripped, single and/or triple-pole.

Am I right in thinking that 60947-2 could incorporate over current protection?

It seems the OP isn't paying heed to your question.

westward10 · Sep 20, 2022

nicebutdim said:
Am I right in thinking that 60947-2 could incorporate over current protection?

It seems the OP isn't paying heed to your question.

Yes you are correct. 60647-3 is an isolator whereas 60947-2 is an mccb often used as main switches on panel boards.

snowhead · Sep 20, 2022

nicebutdim said:
It seems the OP isn't paying heed to your question.

Sure looks that way,

[ElectriciansForums.net] All devices on 3phase board tripped simultaneously

I wonder if the O.P remade the 400a Mainswitch and survived and or all the other tripped devices?

Chris White · Sep 20, 2022

westward10 said:
Is the main switch 60947-2 or 60947-3.

Chris White · Sep 20, 2022

westward10 said:
Is the main switch 60947-2 or 60947-3.

The main switch is a 60947-3 with In of 400A.

westward10 · Sep 20, 2022

Well that answers that if the main switch is 60947-3 then someone has manually isolated it.

Chris White · Sep 20, 2022

Some

timhoward said:
Leaving the main switch aside, unless something simultaneously affected every single distribution circuit between this board in question and the downstream boards, it surely has to be manual operation.

What sort of cables are feeding the downstream boards, are they mechanically protected?
I have once found several circuits all chafed on poorly installed metal trunking which then got hit causing it to cut into all of them.
I think I'd IR a couple of the distribution circuits, rule out cable damage, and declare that the only logical reason is manual operatiomajority of the of the cables are SWA properly glanded into the top of the board.

timhoward said:
Leaving the main switch aside, unless something simultaneously affected every single distribution circuit between this board in question and the downstream boards, it surely has to be manual operation.

What sort of cables are feeding the downstream boards, are they mechanically protected?
I have once found several circuits all chafed on poorly installed metal trunking which then got hit causing it to cut into all of them.
I think I'd IR a couple of the distribution circuits, rule out cable damage, and declare that the only logical reason is manual operation.

The majority of cables are SWA properly glanded into the top of the board and going off in different directions to different parts of the building.

Chris White · Sep 20, 2022

westward10 said:
Well that answers that if the main switch is 60947-3 then someone has manually isolated it.

I thought a 60747-3 could incorporate overcurrent protection and that the In was the devices rating. Please forgive my ignorance if this assumption is wrong.

westward10 · Sep 20, 2022

Chris White said:
I thought a 60747-3 could incorporate overcurrent protection and that the In was the devices rating. Please forgive my ignorance if this assumption is wrong.

No if it incorporated trip functions it would be 60947-2 and also with a device of that size it can be adjusted, I assume it doesn't have these features.
What is the part no to be doubly sure.

davesparks · Sep 20, 2022

westward10 said:
Yes you are correct. 60647-3 is an isolator whereas 60947-2 is an mccb often used as main switches on panel boards.

60947-2 covers MCB, MCCB and ACCB

Avo Mk8 · Sep 20, 2022

That appears to be a Hager H301E which is a switch 'disconnector Isolator'. In which case it does say IEC 60947-3 on the front.
It has a "push to trip" button, but I think that is a mechanical trip for turning off the switch, not current operated.
In which case the only way it will switch 'off' is someone operating it.
Can anyone confirm?

nicebutdim · Sep 20, 2022

Couldn't swear to the H or the 1, but I'd be inclined to go with HC301E, which Hager designate as 'non auto'.

Beyond my experience, but here's a link to some data from Hager. Page 3.30 gives a limited amount of information, but does state BS EN 60947-2 on the table in which this is included. Despite this, every image I can find of this isolator does indeed state 60947-3.

Clear as mud.