fan and isolator positioning

ineedhelp · Jul 12, 2014

Hi Everyone

Quick intro, I have recently started house bashing due to twice being made redundant first as an auto spark and second more recently a server electrician installing power systems to servers and the likes.

Anyway, A recent call took me to someone bathroom with a ceiling fan fault. Did the usual diagnosis and found fan unit to be faulty. My question is, both the fan (240v) and the isolator are positioned that they are in zone 2. Looking at my trusted greenie it seems that this set up does not conform (if i have interpreted it correctly that is). My dilemma is do I replace fan anyway or report this as not conforming and price up accordingly to correct such.

In commercial/industrial land we always worked on the philosophy " if i don't make the existing installation any worse then go ahead (within reason of course) but, Domestic land is a whole new beast and usually is last man frees all.

any help guys and gals would be much appreciated.

UNG · Jul 13, 2014

atm84 said:
UNG
Steam is created by water vapour condensing. It does not require the water to reach 100c for steam to be produced. Steam is actually invisible water vapour condensing to form tiny water droplets as it spreads into cooler air.

I've had many showers and opened the door and steam has billowed out.

If it req. water to be at 100c then no one would need a fan in the bathroom.

I think you need a science lesson but I see Tel's on the case

atm84 said:
Steam is created by water vapour condensing. Steam is in actual fact invisible water droplets. A shower at 40c can create steam and set smoke alarms off.

You don't know when to quit do you having worked on a few steam producing and using plants they where a lot hotter than 40°C

I did state heat detectors any smoke detectors will have problems with water vapour

Geordie Spark · Jul 13, 2014

UNG said:
I think you need a science lesson but I see Tel's on the case

You don't know when to quit do you having worked on a few steam producing and using plants they where a lot hotter than 40°C

I did state heat detectors any smoke detectors will have problems with water vapour

I used to play with this:

[ElectriciansForums.net] fan and isolator positioning

Now THAT produces steam!

GMES · Jul 13, 2014

So did this

When an Ape's Got to go an Ape's got to go!!

telectrix · Jul 13, 2014

that's not steam, it's a mixture of methane and hydrogen sulphide . bet you daren't strike a match.

shanky887614 · Jul 13, 2014

Adam W said:
I'm pretty sure condensed water vapour is most commonly known as 'water' - 'steam' is the gaseous form of water which is produced when water is heated to 100 degrees Celsius and what was used to power trains.
I don't see how a switch in a bathroom is going to be affected any differently to one in a kitchen; the idea of using a pull switch in the bathroom or switch outside the bathroom was to reduce the risk from operating it with wet hands, not to prevent water ingress. Generally speaking a fan isolator is intended for maintenance, which isn't usually carried out by someone who has just stepped out of the shower.

wrong.

water doesnt boil at 100oC

that is only at sea level, the higher you go the lower the temperature needed, it has something to do with air pressure or something if I recall correctly

telectrix · Jul 13, 2014

there you go

trev · Jul 13, 2014

shanky887614 said:
wrong.

water doesnt boil at 100oC

that is only at sea level, the higher you go the lower the temperature needed, it has something to do with air pressure or something if I recall correctly

It's why astronauts wear pressurised suits. In the absence of atmospheric pressure the boiling point of water lowers. 0 pressure = boiled blood = death.
I remember an experiment on How (google it young uns it was great) Fred Dinage lowered the pressure in a vessel and the water in it boiled at room temp.

shanky887614 · Jul 13, 2014

trev said:
It's why astronauts wear pressurised suits. In the absence of atmospheric pressure the boiling point of water lowers. 0 pressure = boiled blood = death.
I remember an experiment on How (google it young uns it was great) Fred Dinage lowered the pressure in a vessel and the water in it boiled at room temp.

I learnt it off QI

trev · Jul 13, 2014

shanky887614 said:
I learnt it off QI

Pfft, Stephen Fry is nothing compared to Messrs Dinage and Ball

shanky887614 · Jul 13, 2014

trev said:
Pfft, Stephen Fry is nothing compared to Messrs Dinage and Ball

yes but qi is more interesting than some of the other crap on tv at night, on practically everyday on dave

telectrix · Jul 13, 2014

Geordie Spark said:
I used to play with this:

Now THAT produces steam!

seen his brothers at a mouseum.

trev · Jul 13, 2014

shanky887614 said:
yes but qi is more interesting than just about all of the other crap on tv.

Put that right for you mate

trev · Jul 13, 2014

telectrix said:
seen his brothers at a mouseum.

Is that where elderly mice go?

telectrix · Jul 13, 2014

no, that's a mousing home. takes all a mouse's pension and makes him sell his house to pay the fees.

Adam W · Jul 14, 2014

shanky887614 said:
water doesnt boil at 100oC

No, it boils at 100°C. The altitude doesn't necessarily make any difference, it's down to atmospheric pressure; water boils at a lower temperature onboard aircraft not because of the altitude but because of the reduced cabin pressure - if the cabin were pressurised to 'standard pressure' water would boil at 100°C at 40,000ft and you could get a decent cup of tea. At higher pressures water boils at higher temperatures, such as in a pressure cooker, regardless of altitude, although of course reducing the external pressure would reduce the maximum internal pressure possible before the safety valve operates.

shanky887614 · Jul 14, 2014

Adam W said:
No, it boils at 100°C. The altitude doesn't necessarily make any difference, it's down to atmospheric pressure; water boils at a lower temperature onboard aircraft not because of the altitude but because of the reduced cabin pressure - if the cabin were pressurised to 'standard pressure' water would boil at 100°C at 40,000ft and you could get a decent cup of tea. At higher pressures water boils at higher temperatures, such as in a pressure cooker, regardless of altitude, although of course reducing the external pressure would reduce the maximum internal pressure possible before the safety valve operates.

I did state that it only boils at 100oC at sea level because of pressure.

if you did read the whole post you would have seen that

Adam W · Jul 14, 2014

shanky887614 said:
I did state that it only boils at 100oC at sea level because of pressure.

if you did read the whole post you would have seen that

I didn't mention pressure initially, you brought that up and declared I was 'wrong'.
If we're being pedantic, water doesn't boil at 100oC it boils at 100°C, and as I pointed out, 'sea level' is irrelevant, it depends on the pressure.

shanky887614 · Jul 14, 2014

Adam W said:
I didn't mention pressure initially, you brought that up and declared I was 'wrong'.
If we're being pedantic, water doesn't boil at 100oC it boils at 100°C, and as I pointed out, 'sea level' is irrelevant, it depends on the pressure.

pressure is determined by the elevation

Adam W · Jul 14, 2014

shanky887614 said:
pressure is determined by the elevation

Yes the higher you go the lower the natural pressure, but that can be altered artificially such as in aircraft cabins as I mentioned in post #65, or in the case of a pressure cooker, but again I've already mentioned that.

Geordie Spark · Jul 14, 2014

telectrix said:
seen his brothers at a mouseum.

View attachment 25574

They are sisters Tel ... same as ships.

They are referred to as "she" because they take a lot of preparation to get them moving in the morning, even more humouring and coaxing to keep them going and cost a fortune to keep them clean & tidy.

atm84 · Jul 14, 2014

telectrix said:
and when water vapour condenses, it becomes ..... water. and it's not just internet info. i have A level physics and as part of HND did physics theory almost to degree level. steam is invisible as it's a gas, not vapour.

"The steam you see rising from a boiling kettle is actually invisible water vapour CONDENSING to form tiny water droplets as it spreads into cooler air" FACT

UNG · Jul 14, 2014

atm84 said:
UNG
Steam is created by water vapour condensing. It does not require the water to reach 100c for steam to be produced. Steam is actually invisible water vapour condensing to form tiny water droplets as it spreads into cooler air.

I've had many showers and opened the door and steam has billowed out.

If it req. water to be at 100c then no one would need a fan in the bathroom.

shanky887614 said:
pressure is determined by the elevation

Pressure at sea level or any level for that matter naturally varies although not by much with weather changes have a look at a barometer, so therefore the exact boiling point of water will vary slightly from day to day if we are really being pedantic

telectrix · Jul 14, 2014

atm84 said:
"The steam you see rising from a boiling kettle is actually invisible water vapour CONDENSING to form tiny water droplets as it spreads into cooler air" FACT

how can you see something that's invisible?

UNG · Jul 14, 2014

telectrix said:
how can you see something that's invisible?

Seeing is believing !!!!!!

atm84 · Jul 14, 2014

telectrix said:
atm84 said:

"The steam you see rising from a boiling kettle is actually invisible water vapour CONDENSING to form tiny water droplets as it spreads into cooler air" FACT

Click to expand...

how can you see something that's invisible?

Because it is condensing to form tiny water droplets which are visible.

ineedhelp

-

Geordie Spark

-

-

-

trev

-

trev

-

-

trev

trev

-

Adam W

-

Adam W

-

Adam W

Geordie Spark

-

-

-

-

-

Similar Threads

OFFICIAL SPONSORS